Wagoner: 'Saab is not for sale'

[Toto]

Originally Posted by sigma

SAAB sells just fine in Europe. In fact, it sell better than most other luxury brands there. Without SAAB, GM would have no presence in European luxury market.

I don't know enough about the other markets in Europe but Saab is not a luxury brand in Germany. Even calling Saab a premium brand is difficult for me. Heck, Saab sold only 85,000 cars in Europe last year. Compared to the 22,000 cars Audi sold in September 2008 in Germany Saab is even in Europe a niche brand.

[sigma]

Originally Posted by Toto

I don't know enough about the other markets in Europe but Saab is not a luxury brand in Germany. Even calling Saab a premium brand is difficult for me. Heck, Saab sold only 85,000 cars in Europe last year. Compared to the 22,000 cars Audi sold in September 2008 in Germany Saab is even in Europe a niche brand.

Compare it to Volvo sales and then get back to me.

[andretti2008]

Originally Posted by Quickening

Saab should be coupled with Saturn or Cadillac depending on location. Yet in the past year, Houston area, a major metropolitan area lost all three of its Saab dealerships...
They were stand alones though.

I agree! Saab could make Saturn look more upscale, only if GM would push Saturn more upmarket and make it Euro sports centered the way they say it is and go ahead and bring out Insignia over as the new Aura already,
Saturn needs better quality materials to do this but they could be a great pair! Just my opinion though! Picture a new Insignia/Aura and a new 95 Turbo on the same showroom floor! Great!

[genjy]

Originally Posted by Olds88

As of right now GM needs its classic core brands to keep sales volume up.

And do you honestly think Saab has more value in the USDM than Buick? Their top selling product was the 9-7 TrailBlazer clone.

That's because GM spends its money on maintaining overlapping domestic brands like Pontiac, Saturn, and Buick. If those brands were gone, SAAB wouldn't have a sad Trailblazer clone, a 100-year old midsizer, and purely-concept cars.

It's probably not the right time to save SAAB now. I guess GM can hold on to it and hope for nicer, happier times.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by sigma

Compare it to Volvo sales and then get back to me.

September sales in Europe:
- Saab = 9,000 cars
- Volvo = 21,000 cars

[fan]

Saab would be a valuable brand if its owner would have cash. It's worth having a luxury brand.

Now, GM has no development money to sustain Saab. Cadillac and Buick are more important and they don't have complete line-ups. They barely have 2 competitive models each. (invicta)

What it could do is keeping Saab on life support as it actually is now. Keep the brand but minimize losses.
Closing it down would be the same thing with keeping it at 50 mil $ a year losses. All its production (9-5\9-3) is done in Europe where costs are on par with competition. It sells small volumes so you'd think most are bought by enthusiasts (Scandinavian countries). It almost can't go lower than that. They don't have many dealers to feed in US like eg. Pontiac. There's no pressure to sell many in US.

Saab is no Volvo. If it wanted to sell it, GM would get at most 1bil$. This is spare change comparing to how much money it needs now. It would not make much of a deal.
Selling it to a strong competitor for almost nothing would not help in the long run. Small deal but another competitor brand to handle.

Maybe in the future, who knows? Just read an interesting article on BMW's future. An analyst was sayin that BMW's 'ultimate sports car' would not fit so well in the new eco-movement. Saab on the other hand has a great eco-image.

[tgagneguam]

Of course, GM doesn't need to sell Saab; Comrades Pelosi, Reid and Obama have found a more palatable alternative.

The Detroit car makers are lobbying for financial assistance this year, authorised by the current ‘lame duck’ Congress, before Barack Obama becomes president on 20 Jan 2009.

Ugh, Detroit, the government already has a government assistance program for companies that cannot manage themselves: Chapter 11. While I wouldn't encourage Detroit to use it, it's also a reason why there's no reason to give them a second option, especially considering Liberal Bush has already put restrictions on individual citizens who seek bankruptcy protection but conveniently left American companies out from the reform. One option is perfectly fine for Detroit.

Wagoner made clear that GM is willing to sign up to the same business restrictions that the banks have accepted.

How very big of you, Rick. You're so reasonable.

[sigma]

Originally Posted by Toto

September sales in Europe:
- Saab = 9,000 cars
- Volvo = 21,000 cars

Back the sales numbers up two years and you'll see significantly better results from SAAB. There product portfolio has been allowed to rot combined with a really poor economy will always equal really bad sales in bad times.

[gmishistory]

Originally Posted by Kennyboy

Who are you? A troll or something. Stop flaming everyone with your non-sense statements.

It makes perfect sense, Buick is big in china, caddy is not. China is the fastest growing market. Then Gm should shutter or merge Caddy into Buick.

[GMusa]

I hope this doesnt change... I actually like SAAB and it hink it could be good for GM if they can get the right products to SAAB. SAAB has great tech!

[Bravada]

Originally Posted by Toto

I don't know enough about the other markets in Europe but Saab is not a luxury brand in Germany. Even calling Saab a premium brand is difficult for me. Heck, Saab sold only 85,000 cars in Europe last year. Compared to the 22,000 cars Audi sold in September 2008 in Germany Saab is even in Europe a niche brand.

I am really surprised to hear that from an European. Perhaps Saab hurts your German pride, but it is clearly a premium brand, given the prices they charge - and they DO sell 85,000 of hideously outdated, TWO mediocre cars GM afforded them. Those two zombies outsell Lexus' full lineup four-to-one, which speaks volumes about Saab's brand equity to me.

There is a lot of life in Saab, GM just needs to keep the flame burning - i.e. it needs wood. Cancel the rather disgusting SRX and put 9-4X forth. Make Cadillac-Saab combination mandatory for the dealers, and let Cadillac focus on what is their competency - LARGE luxury cars, and let Saab take care of the smaller ones. Specialization is key. You know what they say - Jack of all trades, master of...

PS. Saab outsells Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep in Europe. Kill them! Oh wait, they're already dead...

PS. Saab outsold Cadillac more than TEN to one for 1-3Q 2008. Cadillac was also outsold by Lancia, Alfa Romeo, MITSUBISHI and DACIA!!!!

[Kennyboy]

Originally Posted by gmishistory

It makes perfect sense, Buick is big in china, caddy is not. China is the fastest growing market. Then Gm should shutter or merge Caddy into Buick.

Didn't you mention something about shuttering all GM's overseas operations in favor of North American operations? I'm I missing something here???

[chevypowa670]

Originally Posted by Olds88

As of right now GM needs its classic core brands to keep sales volume up.

And do you honestly think Saab has more value in the USDM than Buick? Their top selling product was the 9-7 TrailBlazer clone. Lucerne alone outsells Saab's entire lineup in the USDM. I think Buick has more value than Pontiac, Saturn or Saab. I can back that up with the evidence of the Enclave. Most average people view Buicks as reliable, nice cars that they don't want to drive becuase they're "for old people". Elegantly styled vehicles like Enclave can break Buick's "old man" image. Wait for the new LaCrosse to come out, it will be a sales success. Buick doesn't have a poor reputation for quality, mostly thanks to the bulletproof 3800's ubiquity in Buick vehicles for the better part of the last 15 years. Buick is easily salvagable. It just needs more evocative styling, which it will get. It also could use an RWD V8 vehicle.

If I controlled the reigns at GM I'd rearrange the brands as follows

Keep
=====
Chevrolet -> Everything under the sun. If there's a class of vehicle that has a sizable market, Chevy sells one. Chevy should always offer an option, no excuses to look elsewhere due to GM not having an applicable product.

Cadillac -> Since it seems to have abandoned American luxury, it should be a happy medium between BMW and Mercedes, offering sportiness AND comfort. RWD Sedans/wagons/coupes, Escalade should be the only SUV. SRX should be the new Buick Rendezvous and not a cadillac.

Buick -> American style affordable luxury. My dream Buick Lineup
1) Buick Enclave -- As is
2) Buick Rendezvous -- Take the new SRX and apply Enclave styling.
3) Buick LaCrosse -- Can't improve on the 2010 lacrosse, its plenty attractive as is.
4) Buick Regal -- Alpha based RWD midsized sedan and coupe.
5) Buick Roadmaster -- Full-sized Zeta II RWD sedan, station wagon and coupe. The station wagon's wheelbase is stretched by 5 inches and the overall vehicle lenght is streched by 14 to 18 inches to accomodate a flip-up third row and a massive cargo area. Available engines are the 3.0L 3.8L DI (that displacement will cause sales to happen), and the LS3.

If Pontiac is no more
6) Buick Skylark -- FWD compact car offering a 2.0L (naturally aspirated) 2.3L and 3.0L

GMC -> Rebadged Chevrolet BOF truck/SUVs as always. Sierra, Sierra HD, Yukon, and Yukon XL.

Limbo
======
Pontiac -> Pontiac needs to return to the over the top styling that made them sell cars in the first place. If GM keeps offering Euro styled vehicles their customers don't want, then Pontiac can't last. If G8 was aggressively styled. like the Dodge Charger and named Bonneville or Grand Prix, they'd fly off the lots. Pontiac's customers are more concerned with looking cool and sporty rather than actually being cool and sporty.

Hummer -> Its a pariah in the age of fuel economy, but if its image could be reinvented like Jeep, it could still be a viable brand. H2 would disappear, leave the big SUVs to Chevy.


Gone
=====
Saab -> Sold, spun off, whatever, its a money pit for the USDM. Maybe just continue Saab in Europe.
Saturn -> Same, its a money pit, maybe sold as a package with Saab.



Side note: Somebody explain to me the rationale for cutting GMC. It costs GM almost nothing to have GMC and it generates essentially free sales. It doesn't harm GM in anyway to have GMC alive. It gets practically no advertising and still pushes metal.

great post, i agree with everything you typed, i loved the Hummer Hx concept that they made. This is the kinda vehicle that hummer needs to be trying to make in order to change the company around. they can market it as a Jeep wrangler competitor and it would probably get pretty good gas mileage. But your plans for Buick are very interesting and i can't wait for 2010 Lacrosse, it would be really nice to see Buick with two high quality offerings in two completely different classes. I myself am also curious as to why people want to dump GMC. They are GM's second best selling brand for god sake, all the vehicles they sell make GM a very healthy
profit. The housing crisis is going last forever and once these contractors start getting money is their pockets again truck sales will go up, also with the way gas prices are starting to become reasonable again truck sales might pick-up. i just think its to early to start counting GMC out.

[gardnet1]

Actually GM lost the moment. A year ago they could have made a billion or three off of Saab, now they could give it away and it would save them money but wouldn't help out with the liquidity.

Ford's Mullaly has made a few timely moves that really helped them out.

First, he sold Aston, Land Rover and Jaguar before the market crashed and got lucrative parts supply deals in the process as well as shedding costly, inefficient facilities/employees. However, he did wait too long on Volvo and are paying dearly there.

Second, he beefed up their liquidity before the financials crashed.

Third, he didn't dump Ford Credit, so they can still finance and lease cars.

Think how much better off GM would be if they had followed Ford's lead in these areas.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Bravada

I am really surprised to hear that from an European. Perhaps Saab hurts your German pride, but it is clearly a premium brand, given the prices they charge - and they DO sell 85,000 of hideously outdated, TWO mediocre cars GM afforded them. Those two zombies outsell Lexus' full lineup four-to-one, which speaks volumes about Saab's brand equity to me.

So you call a carmaker with two hideously outdated, mediocre and overpriced cars a premium brand and say I am blind because of my German pride? Okay.