Magna Group Reportedly Pulls Plug on Building Ampera

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by syr74

The problem here is that, in Europe, those potential benefits just aren't there, at least not it anything like the same measure as they exist here. As best as I can tell the general consensus in Europe is that the whole hybrid genre is a bit silly with greater emphasis being placed on advanced diesel tech instead, even Toyota's hybrid darling is just another also-ran across the pond. And therein lies the rub. Take the marketing goodwill and potentially improved perception out of the deal and Volt is little more than an expensive, C segment car that loses money.

Look at what was on display at the Frankfurt auto show this year.

The THEME was hybrid cars and EVs . In previous years, there has been very little hybrid content at the Frankfurt show. Europe plans to push electrification too. It's the new trend in the European auto industry.

It's not just about fuel consumption, but oil independence. Europe is interested in EV's for the same reasons that the US is.

[YupYupYup]

GM sets this up from the beginning to protect their key technology...

1) Chevy is launching the Volt in Europe along with the resurgence of the Chevy brand. Opel would have had to compete against that...There is no way they could have fronted the marketing dollars...

2) Opel would be paying money to a competitor, GM, for use of the technology...

3) This might actually help with the supply of cars because they it will alleviate battery shortages, especially in the beginning. Also, Chevy can go forward without distractions...Less admin devoted to supplying Opel, marketing dollars wasted competing with themselves...

Bye, bye Ampera...Hello Chevy in Europe! :-)

[mbukukanyau]

Magna was building EV focus for Ford, according to a poster at fomoconews. That might be the real reason here.
Here is the Link

Originally Posted by MKII

Geez I forgot all about the Focus BEV

this shows the current Focus but still a nice video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r_kp1QuIN8



The Focus BEV prototype is based on the current European Ford Focus and will use a new all-electric powertrain, provided by the strategic supplier Magna. This technology is based on that being developed for Ford's new-generation C-sized global vehicle architecture and which will be launched in North America in 2011

[chevyman1973]

I think this is great news then gm can export these cars instead of having them built in another country!

[jalberda]

This was reported, from a different angle, more than a week ago in Car Magazine. It says that it's not an IP thing, just economics:

"No Ampera to be built in Europe before 2015'

Vauxhall insiders have made it clear that the car to be known as the Vauxhall/Opel Ampera in Europe will be an import from the US for at least five years. One senior planner told us: 'The US will be the sole source of Amperas until at least 2015.'

Bob Lutz, GM's former product supremo who recently came out of retirement as a PR, said that the low value of the dollar made the US an ideal site for the manufacturing of export cars. And with forecast sticker prices of the range-extender electric car standing at a scary £35,000+, every price saving is vital to its marketability.

The European market also needs time to get its electricity recharge infrastructure in place before it is worth making cars onshore in volume, GM high-ups point out.

Not good news for Magna, then...

Nope. Confirmation of the late start for electric cars at Ellesmere Port raises fresh concerns about its status after the change of ownership from GM to the Canadian components company, Magna.

Magna has to make instant economies within the persistently unprofitable General Motors Europe which is being sold as part of GM’s escape from bankruptcy.

Though Ellesmere Port is the only British-based car factory for GME, and Britain is the group’s biggest single market, it will be scrutinised by Magna for closure to cut the number of unprofitable plants in the group and create greater volume for those that remain."
Full story HERE

[Bravada]

Ok, the article makes it clear and in-your-face that DEMAND and ECONOMIC REASONS are behind that. That's no wonder - after GM pulled the plug on the Opel Flextreme, trying to sell the Volt with a different front clip was a rather desperate measure, and building an identical low-volume, unique-technology car in TWO locations makes even less sense. Given Prius' sales, there is an over 50% chance the Ampera would bomb. And no, Opel does not need such an image-boosting, loss-making car in Europe even half as much as GM needs the Volt in North America.

[BlackGTP]

Originally Posted by chevyman1973

I think this is great news then gm can export these cars instead of having them built in another country!

I am thinking exactly the same! Just curious, are there any cars exported from the US in any significant quantities? I know a few Corvettes, Camaros and Caddys do, but they are very low volume.

[1G6]

The import crowd gnashes their teeth over the low dollar while the men and women of D-Ham and the rest of the US manufacturing sector benefit.

Just watch which politicians start to whine first to see who is under control of offshore strings.

[1G6]

Originally Posted by BlackGTP

I am thinking exactly the same! Just curious, are there any cars exported from the US in any significant quantities? I know a few Corvettes, Camaros and Caddys do, but they are very low volume.

There are a decent number of Enclaves sent to China.

[PeteM143]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Magna Group Reportedly Pulls Plug on Building Ampera
By GM-Volt.com



It was long thought that shortly after the Chevrolet Volt went into production in Michigan that a plant would open in Europe to produce the Ampera.

The front runner for this plant had been the Ellesmere Port plant in the United Kingdom, given the strong backing of the state government, and their willingness to subsidize the project to protect jobs.

On Tuesday, however, the Magna consortium reportedly decided it will not produce the Volt’s cousin at this time, and that the reason for this decision is that they feel demand will not exceed the amount of investment needed at this time.

In a report first brought forth by British media, it was said that Magna did not shut the door on ever producing the Ampera in UK, but felt it would not likely again consider that as a option until 2015 or 2016 in the project’s 2nd generation; although a mystery Vauxhall ’source’ later said that demand, “rather than the launch of the second-gen model, will drive the decision on timing.”

As of now the plan is to export the Ampera/Chevrolet Volt from the DHAM facility in Michigan indefinitely. Naturally, this may cause a strain on capacity and availability of the Volt going forward both domestically and internationally if demand has been underestimated.

Complete article:
http://gm-volt.com/2009/10/17/guest-...ilding-ampera/

We'll see how Magna et-al makes this thing work with Opel. They have very little experience producing a complete car. Some models don't make money out of the gate. The Pruis didn't. The Volt won't either.

Opel, by not doing the Ampera, will be a follower in Europe, while Chevrolet can freely put out the Volt. The Volt is an ideal car for Europe, with gas being something like $6 a gallon. Opel will become a has-been. Too bad for them.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Look at what was on display at the Frankfurt auto show this year.

The THEME was hybrid cars and EVs . In previous years, there has been very little hybrid content at the Frankfurt show. Europe plans to push electrification too. It's the new trend in the European auto industry.

It's not just about fuel consumption, but oil independence. Europe is interested in EV's for the same reasons that the US is.

Semantics here. I never said that entities within Europe weren't pushing hybrids....I said that, thus far, they have met with nothing like the success they have here which effectively kills the marketing benefit. In other words, the governments may be pushing but the people aren't buying, at least not in any measure that matters.

So, from a business perspective, that begs the question...why do it? We can talk about energy independence all we want, but that isn't the responsibility of the car makers. Put more simply, it is not my responsibility as a business owner to lose money so I/we as a people can find energy independence, I'm a business not a charity.

Beyond that, how do we know that Magna even finds this tech economically or environmentally viable in the long term? Whatever else we may want to make it hybrid tech is anything but a slam dunk no matter how you look at it. At the moment there is good reason to believe that it leaves a carbon footprint larger than any strictly gasoline powered car and that it will likely never be economically viable.

It's a marketing gimmick, and frankly I'm amazed that so many companies are jumping on this bandwagon in ways that wont be easy to shake off when the bubble bursts.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by syr74

Semantics here. I never said that entities within Europe weren't pushing hybrids....I said that, thus far, they have met with nothing like the success they have here which effectively kills the marketing benefit. In other words, the governments may be pushing but the people aren't buying, at least not in any measure that matters.

So, from a business perspective, that begs the question...why do it? We can talk about energy independence all we want, but that isn't the responsibility of the car makers. Put more simply, it is not my responsibility as a business owner to lose money so I/we as a people can find energy independence, I'm a business not a charity.

Beyond that, how do we know that Magna even finds this tech economically or environmentally viable in the long term? Whatever else we may want to make it hybrid tech is anything but a slam dunk no matter how you look at it. At the moment there is good reason to believe that it leaves a carbon footprint larger than any strictly gasoline powered car and that it will likely never be economically viable.

It's a marketing gimmick, and frankly I'm amazed that so many companies are jumping on this bandwagon in ways that wont be easy to shake off when the bubble bursts.

I wouldn't call parallel hybrids "successful" anywhere to be honest. We build one here that is a mascot for the green movement, but literally in every other application the same basic powertrain fails.

The current hybrids need really high gas prices to make sense. VOLTEC plans to steal the "Green" buyers to pay for a technology that really could make a difference. 15% of the gas a Prius uses is actually compelling.

As far as Europe is concerned, it needs to do significantly better than diesel to be accepted or considered. Well, guess what - current parallel hybrids can't do that. We (for some reason I'll never understand) don't do diesel in this country. It's viewed as a dirty fuel for dirty people. So - comparing parallel hybrids to gas that makes some sense.

VOLTEC on the other hand can be much more efficient than diesel from a petroleum fuel usage standpoint. So, its compelling. Also, electrically powered machines of just about every type - from trains to mowers are much more accepted in Europe. Also, VOLTEC will not be marketed as a hybrid - the public is about to learn what EREV means - and its a brilliant strategy as it makes hybrids appear obsolete.

I agree with your business assessment, however I don't expect VOLTEC to be treated the same as HSD over time. Magna is probably smart to realize they can access VOLTEC whenever they want, so why chance it?

[slowinthefastlane]

Good.

The Volt should be sold worldwide as a Chevrolet - just as the Prius is sold worldwide as a Toyota. It's will be GM's "green ambassador" so to speak.

[jalberda]

Originally Posted by PeteM143

We'll see how Magna et-al makes this thing work with Opel. They have very little experience producing a complete car. Some models don't make money out of the gate. The Pruis didn't. The Volt won't either.

Opel, by not doing the Ampera, will be a follower in Europe, while Chevrolet can freely put out the Volt. The Volt is an ideal car for Europe, with gas being something like $6 a gallon. Opel will become a has-been. Too bad for them.

Correction: the Opel/Vauxhall Ampera will be sold in Europe. It just won't be manufactured there. The question is if the Chevy Volt will be sold in Europe as well. I haven't heard about that one yet.

[jamiepeterson2]

Overall, this should add one or two jobs at Hamtramck. Big whoop!

Volt production will be lucky to top 20,000 units and the 5,000 or so Amperas to be exported to Europe could easily be slotted into the production line in Michigan. So, why even consider a European assembly plant in the first place?