Lutz to be new chairman of Opel

[hunchman]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

You're going to get yourself voted off GMI Island if you keep up with posts like that mgescuro.

Let the voting begin!!!

[GMFAN85]

Originally Posted by O_Z

If you did not realize that 2+2=4 it is your problem
A lot of reability problem comes from engineering.
Honda makes cars in China and sells them in Europe. Do you think they use special Chinese breed of workers?


ЗЫ My English is poor, but if wont we can switch to Russian or Ukrainian and talk about hypocrisy little bit more.

Way to bring the argument down a notch. I never said anything about race or a person's country being a factor at how well they build a car. You're putting words into my mouth.
I'm talking about how German engineered cars tend to be more advanced than American built cars. Then when someone made the claim that European cars have horrible reliability, I pointed to four different brands that rank above average in quality with JD Power. Yes.. VW and Mercedes are pretty bad but the same can be said about Hummer and Pontiac on the same survey. Both brands are engineered by GM and many of the Pontiac vehicles sold until recently were rebadges of Chevys.
Here:
http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content...endability.jpg

Believe me.. I'm not a card carrying euro car fanboy.. I own a Pontiac and come from a GM family, but I refuse to let my bias get in the way and deny that European cars tend to be more advanced technically than their American, Japanese, and Korean counterparts.

I'm also not going to pretend that I know anything about the manufacturing process, but I use common sense and research anything that I'm unaware of.

[jzchev28]

Originally Posted by hunchman

Let the voting begin!!!

everyone raise their hands

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

Yet German engineering is well respected around the world. And though Americans consumer product manufacturing base has been hollowed out because nobody was willing to buy their product, demand for made in Germany product remains very strong. How does one explain that?

German product doesn't get bought, it gets leased. That's because people don't trust it not to be an out-of-warranty money pit.

[Burnout Czar]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Ahh yes. Another pissing contest between engineers who think they know, fans who know the know, and people who have insider info who claim they know.

Gotta love the sordid nature of GMI.

Who cares if Germans "overcomplicate" their engineering. They engineer solutions. They aren't afraid of technology and implementing it in their cars. And why do people cling onto quality reports for 5-6 years ago when Mercedes actually had quality problems? Have people even bothered looking at the quality rankings TODAY? Yes. The all new C-Class is near the top in quality. Where is CTS? 2nd to last. But does that matter? Of course not, because 5-6 years ago Mercedes ****ed up.



Opel should be the source of GM engineering worldwide. It would behoove GM to utilize German engineering in EVERYTHING they do. Not on a platform here, part of something there, a few cars here. EVERYTHING should run through Opel.
American automotive engineering is trailing the world. The cars aren't as solidly built as the Asians. You're more likely to start getting squeaks in an American car over something from Europe or Asia. In America, everything is built to meet a cost target. The cars aren't built to a product requirement. Sure, a lot of that had to do with the cost of labor. But this is a new GM, right? That should change. Hopefully.

GM can ill afford to continue to build cars the way it has been building cars for the past couple decades. GM needs to build them like Opel -- European in its engineering and build quality. A more solid car.

Drive a European sourced GM car. You can feel the difference. Take a 9-3 for a spin. Take a 9-5 for a spin. Even Astra has a more solid, well built feel compared to a Cobalt.

There is absolutely nothing WRONG with adopting the "Opel way." In fact, it should be the ONLY way at GM. GM can only win with this strategy. It simplifies its global strategy and platforms. It raises the bar for its cars.


And as for Lutz possibly becoming Chairman? Whatever. He's been at BMW before and is familiar with the Euro market. But I don't think he'll have significant influence. And he really shouldn't. GM needs to start weaning themselves off of Lutz. GM needs to learn to survive without him.

Ah another condescending rebuttal from Mgescuro, GMI's lead troll. What do you mean if the Germans over complicate their engineering? This adds cost and increases risk of failure, neither of which is acceptable in today's modern world. Why is an American car more likely to get squeaks than a German car? You are making blanket statements about which you nothing about. It is clear that you set in your ways out there in Mexifornia.

[Burnout Czar]

Originally Posted by GMFAN85

Way to bring the argument down a notch. I never said anything about race or a person's country being a factor at how well they build a car. You're putting words into my mouth.
I'm talking about how German engineered cars tend to be more advanced than American built cars. Then when someone made the claim that European cars have horrible reliability, I pointed to four different brands that rank above average in quality with JD Power. Yes.. VW and Mercedes are pretty bad but the same can be said about Hummer and Pontiac on the same survey. Both brands are engineered by GM and many of the Pontiac vehicles sold until recently were rebadges of Chevys.
Here:
http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content...endability.jpg

Believe me.. I'm not a card carrying euro car fanboy.. I own a Pontiac and come from a GM family, but I refuse to let my bias get in the way and deny that European cars tend to be more advanced technically than their American, Japanese, and Korean counterparts.

I'm also not going to pretend that I know anything about the manufacturing process, but I use common sense and research anything that I'm unaware of.

Again you show your complete ignorance and make a baseless accusation of racism. What he was saying is that a company's manufacturing process should be robust enough to produce the same vehicle/product anywhere in the world and have the same level of quality/reliability.

[Burnout Czar]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

Yet German engineering is well respected around the world. And though Americans consumer product manufacturing base has been hollowed out because nobody was willing to buy their product, demand for made in Germany product remains very strong. How does one explain that?

There is a perception around the world that German engineering is superior, but it is just that a perception. Unfortunately in many cases perception is reality. Demand is not strong for German vehicles here, VW is blip on the radar and one can hardly call luxury brands strong demand. What other Germans products is there strong demand for? Krupps coffee makers? And the decline of the American manufacturing base, well I could explain that but its going to be 70 degrees where I'm at today so I will enjoy the weather, there are many other GMI members who could post a better reply than I.

Originally Posted by hunchman

Let the voting begin!!!

I agree lets get rid of this ass hat!

[appman85]

Originally Posted by jzchev28

everyone raise their hands

I have both hands raised. I've never seen anyone as arrogant, condescending and self centered as this bird brain. I'm glad he was stripped of his moderation powers (don't think we forgot that).

LOL @ him waving the Opel flag...when Opel is considered a joke in Europe.

Before he accuses me of living in a "fly over state", I live on the Coast myself.

I remember when he used to be obsessed about anything Asian made...but it appears he switched over to the German side. Anything he can possible do to bash GM, he will.

The overwhelming majority of posters have no credibility with him, and vice versa. I have seen others banned for far less offenses than he commits on a daily basis with his negativity and condescending attitude. This site would be far better place if we didn't have to read his negativity and personal attacks of other members every day.

[DenCo]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Ahh yes. Another pissing contest between engineers who think they know, fans who know the know, and people who have insider info who claim they know.

Gotta love the sordid nature of GMI.

Oooh goody! The circle is complete with more condescension from the know-it-all that knows nothing!

GM is a GLOBAL company that, surprise surprise, uses its resources GLOBALLY. To pretend that there is ONE branch responsible for everything or all the good is as ignorant as it is false: You CAN NOT pin Epsilon II or anything else like that on Opel ALONE; you CAN'T go claiming that the Malibu or Aura or any model was designed/engineered by Opel.

It's simply not true... that's not how it works.

Want to see 100% Opel products in NA? Look at the wonder that was the Catera and the perfection that is the Astra.

Equally laughable is how Opel, owned IN WHOLE by GM since 1929, is considered a completely separate entity.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by Burnout Czar

There is a perception around the world that German engineering is superior, but it is just that a perception. Unfortunately in many cases perception is reality. Demand is not strong for German vehicles here, VW is blip on the radar and one can hardly call luxury brands strong demand. What other Germans products is there strong demand for? Krupps coffee makers? And the decline of the American manufacturing base, well I could explain that but its going to be 70 degrees where I'm at today so I will enjoy the weather, there are many other GMI members who could post a better reply than I.

The Germans have kept a strong manufacturing base in an even higher cost country then the US because they produce such high value added products. We aren't as committed to manufacturing like the Germans are; we'd rather go after the quick dollars in finance. Their mindset is different. We tend to look down on manufacturing things whereas they value it highly.

[GMFAN85]

Originally Posted by Burnout Czar

Again you show your complete ignorance and make a baseless accusation of racism. What he was saying is that a company's manufacturing process should be robust enough to produce the same vehicle/product anywhere in the world and have the same level of quality/reliability.

What is wrong with you? I never called anyone racist. I was defending myself from what I thought was a claim that I was being prejudice towards the type of people who build cars. Now you're putting words into my mouth. Do you even read my posts before responding to them or are you just a troll?

[Aych Es Vee]

Bob Lutz should be Chairman of Holden.

[Burnout Czar]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

The Germans have kept a strong manufacturing base in an even higher cost country then the US because they produce such high value added products. We aren't as committed to manufacturing like the Germans are; we'd rather go after the quick dollars in finance. Their mindset is different. We tend to look down on manufacturing things whereas they value it highly.

You are correct in that other countries value manufacturing more than the US. The US views manufacturing as this ugly little problem that should just go away. Unfortunately this foolish attitude is a big part of why we are in the trouble were in,.

Originally Posted by GMFAN85

What is wrong with you? I never called anyone racist. I was defending myself from what I thought was a claim that I was being prejudice towards the type of people who build cars. Now you're putting words into my mouth. Do you even read my posts before responding to them or are you just a troll?

Clearly I am not a troll, I am a GM enthusiast. Go back and read your response to his, you accused him of being prejudice against the workforce in a particular region of the world. Hence me calling you out for making an accusation of racism. Relax were on the same side here.

[seeg]

Originally Posted by appman85

LOL @ him waving the Opel flag...when Opel is considered a joke in Europe.

Yet, it's Europe's third largest brand.

[TKR]

Mark Reuss seems to be going places in a hurry. From what I have read about him, he may be a good successor to Bob. Time will tell.