GM is ready to keep Opel if EU blocks Magna deal

[Stéphane Dumas]

Originally Posted by eaton53

I don't think this is an accurate statement...

+1 the more they know about Magna and Sherbank, the lesser is

[YupYupYup]

Maybe that was the plan all along... ;-)

[rueben44]

Well now RHJ says they are no longer interested because of other investments.

[Bravada]

Why not keep Opel and slowly turn them into Buick in Europe.

In case you haven't noticed, Buick has been turned into North American Opel.

[dagr382]

Originally Posted by jbartley

i still stand by my orginal belief that what's best for Opel and GM, is for GM to retain complete control and cut back heavily on Opel employees and cut a factory or two.

Magna would not do enough to stem Opels losses, and Opel is an asset to GM it cannot afford to let slip away.

Yes yes yes!

[62Lincoln]

If the deal falls through (and along with it the funding from the German government), where does GM get the operating funds to keep Opel running? GM is not allowed to use any of the funds from U.S. taxpayers to fund any overseas operations. Opel is losing significant money right now, and GM does not (I don't think) have the capital to support it, much less prop it up. And by the way, Daewoo is also costing GM significant operating capital, because it too is losing money. GM (Henderson) just went hat in hand to the South Korean government looking for funds.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by web_captain

It must be clear that practically Germany's gov.t has blackmailed GM.NA and since every other solution is better fo GM, it's a nonsense to have GM.NA below the 50% in Opel

It's not blackmail when it's German taxpayers bailing you out. Without German support, Opel would already be in bankruptcy and GM would have lost their complete investment in it.

Originally Posted by rueben44

Well now RHJ says they are no longer interested because of other investments.

Seriously? I didn't think RHJ was ever serious about the car business.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by 62Lincoln

If the deal falls through (and along with it the funding from the German government), where does GM get the operating funds to keep Opel running? GM is not allowed to use any of the funds from U.S. taxpayers to fund any overseas operations.

The only way GM could keep running Opel is if the German government gave the billions in loans to GM instead of Magna. But in that case, the German government would likely take majority ownership of Opel.

[appman85]

Originally Posted by Bravada

It's not about Magna here. It's about Germany effectively funding its inefficient industry over other countries' investment. The EU rules exist for the very reason of prevention of this potentially contagious and disastrous practice. The whole idea behind EU was to save heaps of money European governments spent on that and allow faster growth. Germany has not been a growth economy for a long time, but the UK, Spain and Poland have been and want to continue to be rather than splurge on competing with Germany over the assembly of a compact car or supermini.

Try not to let your anti German bias show too much. I'm sure I'm not the only one that notices you jump on anything German any chance you get. I think someone is still a little bitter about past events...

So the UK, Spain and Poland have their own automotive industries? That is news to me. Germany is a far more advanced and powerful nation than those 3 countries put together.It must frustrate you knowing that no matter how many times you try to put Germany down (wars, division) it still comes back stronger, and better than Poland.

Another newsflash, the EU, just like the UN is an ineffective, inefficient disaster that needs to be dissolved soon. Punishing the strong by making them support the weak (socialism) hurts everyone. Equality for all, right?

[ARCANGEL]

Originally Posted by Bravada

In case you haven't noticed, Buick has been turned into North American Opel.

I have noticed and if you read my post you can clearly see that. My point is GM said it wants to focus on it's core brands. So as I stated earlier. If they are making Buick a fusion of Opel and American Buick they should make Opel the same and relaunch it in Europe as Buick. One so not to have 5 brands and stick with the core four. Two to make Buick global. Three because Opel doesn't have much cachet anymore in Europe.

[Burnout Czar]

Originally Posted by appman85

Try not to let your anti German bias show too much. I'm sure I'm not the only one that notices you jump on anything German any chance you get. I think someone is still a little bitter about past events...

So the UK, Spain and Poland have their own automotive industries? That is news to me. Germany is a far more advanced and powerful nation than those 3 countries put together.It must frustrate you knowing that no matter how many times you try to put Germany down (wars, division) it still comes back stronger, and better than Poland.

Another newsflash, the EU, just like the UN is an ineffective, inefficient disaster that needs to be dissolved soon. Punishing the strong by making them support the weak (socialism) hurts everyone. Equality for all, right?

Are you serious? Are you a great grand son of the Keiser? I see no bias in Bravada's comments, he is simply stating what is true. Why would one build cars in Germany at the high labor rates $65/hr vs. $10/hr for Poland? The German Opel plants are inefficient and cost too much, the other European plants are more modern, cost less, and have workers who work more than 35 hrs per week. And what is with your anti-Polish comments, completely inappropriate. Germany is living in the past and needs to deal with its excess capacity.

[stevecmh]

YEs.. please keep it.. They have some great products.. IT would be beneficial for GM to keep Opel

[mbukukanyau]

I pray this deal dies. DIE!!!!!

[Bravada]

If they are making Buick a fusion of Opel and American Buick they should make Opel the same and relaunch it in Europe as Buick.

What for??? Why don't they throw away Cadillac and call it "LaSalle" at the same time?

Try not to let your anti German bias show too much. I'm sure I'm not the only one that notices you jump on anything German any chance you get. I think someone is still a little bitter about past events...

Wow, where did you get that? I actually like Germany a lot, I am among the few people in the world who love not only the German language spoken, but also sang, and would tout Germany as a tourist destination to you.

I am just biased against the Bochum and Ruesselsheim factories, I admit that. Anybody who has experienced their past products is entitled to be IMHO

So the UK, Spain and Poland have their own automotive industries? That is news to me.

Hungary? That's a country?

Germany is a far more advanced and powerful nation than those 3 countries put together.It must frustrate you knowing that no matter how many times you try to put Germany down (wars, division) it still comes back stronger, and better than Poland.

Up until that point I was treating this point seriously

[seeg]

Originally Posted by ARCANGEL

Why not keep Opel and slowly turn them into Buick in Europe. Rebrand Opel and shun it's problems for sales in Europe. Bring Buick back to Europe so it's presence can expand there. Make the new regal he jump off point! Start fusing both Opel and Buick. Bring the European aspects to America and the American aspects to Europe. Win win.

Originally Posted by ARCANGEL

I have noticed and if you read my post you can clearly see that. My point is GM said it wants to focus on it's core brands. So as I stated earlier. If they are making Buick a fusion of Opel and American Buick they should make Opel the same and relaunch it in Europe as Buick. One so not to have 5 brands and stick with the core four. Two to make Buick global. Three because Opel doesn't have much cachet anymore in Europe.

Opel is GM's mainstream European brand. That's like bringing Holden to North America to come in and replace Chevy. There would be no sound business case for this if GM were to end up keeping Opel. Plus, Opel is the number three brand in Europe, only behind Volkswagen and Ford, and their sales have been growing. They have no problem with sales or "cachet."

And seeing what's happened with Cadillac, it doesn't seem like Europeans take too positively to "American aspects."