A German view of the Opel-Magna debacle

[rueben44]

Originally Posted by msitter

Does anyone really give a rats behind what the Germans think? The German workers should just be happy that Opels are not being made in China. Obama thinks that the American business model should more reflect what goes on in Germany, that would decimate all manufacturing here in the US. It is far easier to move to China from here than it is in Germany. The Germans should just be happy that someone wants to make Opels in Germany rather than taking the factories to the third world. The cradle to grave mentality of the Germans has killed all incentive to be creative.

Good lord he is responsible for the election of governors and all the ills of the world...perhaps he is the anti christ. Can we just stick to cars I'm tired of the tea bagger bashing.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Opel would not have been in RHJ hands for long. As I said in my post, GM had the intention of buying Opel back. When RHJ was rumored to be GM's preferred bidder due to the buy back option, Germany then said in order to get the loan, the deal could not have a buy back option for GM.

There is no way of knowing how long RHJ would have been in control. The point is, they were never remotely qualified to even be considered.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Again, it is very clear that the Germans wanted Opel out of GM's hands and make sure GM could not get Opel back.

No, it's that RHJ was an extremely high risk. Much riskier then Magna. And because so much taxpayers money was at risk, the German govt had to choose the lower risk.

Originally Posted by mpsrent

Why so much anomosity towards the German government? They were only trying to protect the interests of their taxpayers at a time when GM had made it clear they did not want Opel anymore.

It's leftover GM hubris. Hopefully there isn't too much left as GM will still need all the assistance from Germany and other European govts if they hope to be able to turn Opel back into a profit making company.

[Exploder]

Opel: Wer Lieben Autos!!!

I never really understood that slogan. Shouldn't it be 'Wir leben f��ür Autos' or 'Wir sind leben Autos'? (I think the latter may be hugely incorrect).

Anyway, current German government in regards to Opel/GM is more like wir sind böse.

[SigEpCutlass]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

GM preferred to keep Opel, but Opel needed a loan to stay out of liquidation. It was first an investment partner for GM to get the loan. Then it was to sell majority of Opel. Then it was only sell to Magna to get the loan with no buy back option.

That is why there is animosity.

I hope GM sticks it to the German government, as they're practically GM's psycho ex-girlfriend. DO WHAT I WANT OR ELSE seems to have been the theme here. The German government had unrealistic expectations to save jobs in the face of overwhelming evidence of a global economic downturn.

Originally Posted by plane

And IT folks that have no business discussing or even contemplating marketing.......

There are several of us IT folks who double majored or minored in college in a business discipline.

It's what makes me so dangerous, I'm able to walk the walk and talk the talk effectively for both disciplines. Not only do I design intelligent information systems, I make recommendations to correct your idiotic business decisions.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by Burnout Czar

Opel: American since 1929 (Except when the Nazis stole it from us, you do remember the Nazis don't you?)

Americans 3 (WWI, WWII, Opel)
Germans 0

Zei screwed Chrysler you know... score van for zem.

[GMJoe]

GM has already repaid $600,000,000 of the bridge loan and has told the German Govt it will pay it all back if they demand it.

GM was forced into the Magna deal by the Germans when they really prefered the RHJ deal.The Germans didn't like it because they would not get the same preference in plant closings as in the Magna deal and GM would have the option to buy back Opel at a later date. Also, the Magana deal would help Germany kiss up to the Russians as far as buying energy supplies.( GM would have probably stuck with the RHJ deal, but the Germans put their interest before the best interests of GM and Opel)

Now GM is in a stronger position to handle the Opel situation themselves. You can't blame them for wanting to keep a vital part of their future product and technology plans.They have owned Opel for years and have every right to keep it.

For Germany to be bitching about a factory closing and loosing some jobs while we in America have had to see four devisions closed , a number of factories shut down, and thousands of jobs lost and $ 50 billion of taxpayer money spent to help GM survive, is the ultimate insult.

They ought to be glad GM wants to keep Opel alive. GM could have just shut it down and used their China and Korean alliances to fill the gap as well as concentrating on expanding the Chevy brand in Europe.

Our workers and citizens had to sacrifice to keep GM afloat, now is it too much to ask the Germans to do the same for Opel?

[landjet06]

[quote=Burnout Czar;1889251]Are you a mod? I didn't think so, so don't me tell what I can can't post. What advantages does the German business model have? A 35 hr work week, the whole month of August off plus numerous other holidays, Uncompetitive labor structure, arrogant attitudes? I deal with this German business on a daily basis and if it wasn't for the fact we sell a lot of product in Germany we would be done with them, everyone at my company agrees they are a pain the a$$ to work with.

Quite frankly the German government never should have messed with GM, I mean this is General Motors were talking about, largest auto maker in the world. If I was GM I would keep the tech center in Russelheim and close all the German manufacturing facilities and move them to Belgium, Poland, Spain, and Britain. The British and Polish in particular seem very excited to see Opel staying with GM. Or better yet build the Opel's in South Korea. The Germans need to learn the world does not revolve around them.

You Da Man Burnout Czar,I guess you put that assclown in his place! The Germans were like the 500 lb. pig at the food trough nuzzling all the other piglets out of the way so they could stuff their mouths with Gm's IP and steal Opel from GM! I agree,let GM close all the German plants and disperse all production amoungst Europe where the jobs will be appreciated!

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by GMJoe

For Germany to be bitching about a factory closing and loosing some jobs while we in America have had to see four devisions closed , a number of factories shut down, and thousands of jobs lost and $ 50 billion of taxpayer money spent to help GM survive, is the ultimate insult.

Oh please, quit the whining. GM is GM's problems, quit blaming it on someone else. It is so sad to see a company that is dependent on government support for its survival acting like a welfare queen.

[mbukukanyau]

[/quote]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

Oh please, quit the whining. GM is GM's problems, quit blaming it on someone else. It is so sad to see a company that is dependent on government support for its survival acting like a welfare queen.

Whether GM is bad or not, they own Opel, and there is nothing the Germans can do about GM deciding not to sell.
GM board feels now that they can sort this matter inhouse, and that is what they are going to do.

[richmond2000]

One thing the Germans liked about magna was that they wanted to expand Opel into Russia / Asia which GM wanted to have there Korean division do without competition for Chevy, GM buyback / keep options have NO expansion options for Opel outside of europe

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by richmond2000

One thing the Germans liked about magna was that they wanted to expand Opel into Russia / Asia which GM wanted to have there Korean division do without competition for Chevy, GM buyback / keep options have NO expansion options for Opel outside of europe

Not true. Opel is already giving Buick products.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Whether GM is bad or not, they own Opel, and there is nothing the Germans can do about GM deciding not to sell.
GM board feels now that they can sort this matter inhouse, and that is what they are going to do.

That GM can keep Opel is the best news GM has had in a year. But the constant bashing of Germany is tiresome.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

That GM can keep Opel is the best news GM has had in a year. But the constant bashing of Germany is tiresome.

I agree, I had to have some fun with Ze germans, but, Angie Merkel needs some bashing, she was nowhere near fair to Ze american company.

[jalberda]

Originally Posted by Burnout Czar

Are you a mod? I didn't think so, so don't me tell what I can can't post. What advantages does the German business model have? A 35 hr work week, the whole month of August off plus numerous other holidays, Uncompetitive labor structure, arrogant attitudes?

Quite frankly the German government never should have messed with GM, I mean this is General Motors were talking about, largest auto maker in the world. The Germans need to learn the world does not revolve around them.

There we go again.. the Germans aren't doing so badly in the automotive world. VW is riding high, and could soon overtake Toyota. And VW does build quite a few cars in Germany. They are even partly state-owned. After the complete failure of GM at survival, can you really say that their business model was working?

And I guess we'll find out who will mess with whom. "This is GM we're talking about".... so what? The company went bust. Down. Kaput. Bankrupt. It's hardly the powerhouse it was 30 years ago. GM is NOT the largest car maker anymore. It might have been saved by the US government, but its future is far from certain.
GM does not have much money they can use for their international operations right now. Germany has that money.
The world does not revolve around Germany. Nor does it revolve around GM (or the US, for that matter).

[optiongm]

I don't think we are paying the proper attention to this Opel deal. NOTHING in GM future is as serious to its financial survivability as a STRIKE by the Opel workers. This is similar to the last strike GM had back in Flint that cost billions. No one wins in these strikes! Opel could implode and bring down GM the parent. Cost billions of limited dollars and precious man hours dealing with a problem of over paid over promised union workers and over paid yes men GM managers dealing out those promises. We will need lots of luck to get through this latest landmine!