China's BAIC To Get Opel?

[chinamonty]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Are you serious about this post? Chinese Gov't is our banker or we are holding them by the bolls to buy our debt?
China is in a bad place. They cannot afford to loose control over their masses.

If Poverty hits China, the commies go down. They Need us to do well to maintain their growth....hey cannot turn back the clock to force the masses back into the 1960's cultural revolution. Too Many rich people and too many people with upward mobility. This my friend is China's problem. As long as economic growth remains, the masses are satisfied with the political status quo, it stops and the masses will demand better management from the top... The top is not you liberal or right wing western politician cheating on his wife.. the top is made up of good old commies...

For that to happen, The US $$ has to remain strong. And China'sd economy is tiny compared to ours, or even EU's...

China is the proverbial paper tiger, It has massive internal problems.

Yes it does have internal problems but it doesn't owe 3,262Billion dollars (Apr09) like the US does. In fact it has bonds of 763Billion.

The Chinese government are well aware of social stability and the need to grow to protect it. Really though what are the options that exist for the general Chinese people - a military dictatorship of a different flavour that is more severe. Even if poverty hits China I think the status quo would remain for a while and be given a chance to do something about it -its not as if they can be voted out.

[Dr. Show-Me]

Think about it - if you don't like your government, can you change it? What would you change it to? Would the Chinese choose the Communist party? Or would they choose freedom and self government?
Would Canada or Australia choose a dictatorship? Would we? Of course not. Once you have freedom, there is no going back.
Chinese Communists know that, and so they very carefully give the feeling of prosperity and advancement to the people, without allowing the freedoms we take for granted.

[throwback]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Are you serious about this post? Chinese Gov't is our banker or we are holding them by the bolls to buy our debt?
China is in a bad place. They cannot afford to loose control over their masses.

If Poverty hits China, the commies go down. They Need us to do well to maintain their growth....hey cannot turn back the clock to force the masses back into the 1960's cultural revolution. Too Many rich people and too many people with upward mobility. This my friend is China's problem. As long as economic growth remains, the masses are satisfied with the political status quo, it stops and the masses will demand better management from the top... The top is not you liberal or right wing western politician cheating on his wife.. the top is made up of good old commies...

For that to happen, The US $$ has to remain strong. And China'sd economy is tiny compared to ours, or even EU's...

China is the proverbial paper tiger, It has massive internal problems.

The Chinese hold billions in US bonds, and billions more in dollar reserves, but we hold them by the balls? We have become addicted to cheap goods that are mostly supplied by the Chinese. We have very little leverage on the Chinese, they know it and so do we. Why do you think the last 3 Presidents have been tepid about China and human rights? Sure they are dependent on us buying their goods, but we complain when we have to pay $1.00 more for a pack of socks. China has become the world's manufacturing center, every country buys Chinese goods.

[Dr. Show-Me]

Is there anything ESSENTIAL that we buy from China? I can't think of a thing that couldn't be sourced elsewhere, including the USA.
We buy a lot of stuff from China, and could buy nothing from them in a trade war. By imposing a 500% import fee on everything, we could end China's dominance of low cost goods in the US.
So in essence, we are (slightly) dependent on cheap Chinese goods, and they are strongly dependent upon OUR buying their cheap goods. That could all change if we chose to buy from India instead. In many ways, China and the US are locked together in an uncomfortable embrace.

[Grim]

Originally Posted by chinamonty

Excuse me but did you guys read what has been written. Magna is getting the money from the Russians.
I trust Chinese much more than I would trust Russians.

Right!

China will overtake US as a World Superpower in the next 10 years, so better to mate with your future master now, til it's not too late.

[Drive_Fast]

china produces first rate products and i would have no problems purchasing from china. I have gotten products from china at walmart and ebay... I think the Chinese cars are great quality such as the Chery Amule....

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/unsafe-at...est-288294.php

[newdude]

I'm sorry but I would rather see Opel go to a Canadian company than to China. Enough of this crap where everything is going to China. You name it, its made there. I say, GM, being the American company they are, shouldn't even THINK of looking at BAIC's bid, and go by a "first come-first serve" basis. Its bad enough that everyday one of them Chineese automakers whips up a new model practically everyday, and just copies everyone else. I say no to BAIC, and yes to Magna.

[chinamonty]

As long as you that by saying yes to Magna you are also saying yes to Russia.

[chinamonty]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

Think about it - if you don't like your government, can you change it? What would you change it to? Would the Chinese choose the Communist party? Or would they choose freedom and self government?
Would Canada or Australia choose a dictatorship? Would we? Of course not. Once you have freedom, there is no going back.
Chinese Communists know that, and so they very carefully give the feeling of prosperity and advancement to the people, without allowing the freedoms we take for granted.

I don't know exactly how your "government" works but here in Australia you only get rid of elected officials. The bureaucracy stays the same to a very large extent. There are plenty of democracies that have had military dictatorships imposed on them but you are people don't vote that -but they get it anyway.
You are right about the "freedoms we take for granted" but really other than family planning issues the average Chinese goes about their own business avoiding government (usually the Police) and usually can.
The fact that there are only 75million members of the chinese Communist Party shows that it is a very tightly held "club" and that the average Chinese doesn't worry too much if they are fed and healthy (which most are)

[Drive_Fast]

Originally Posted by chinamonty

As long as you that by saying yes to Magna you are also saying yes to Russia.

and thats why we should say no to this deal... the Russians are a criminal state. Look at how Putin did a power grab and became ruller once again after being term limited. HE restructers the government so the his new office has all the power..... China has more freedoms then Russia and besides China treats its people better then Russia does. I would say that Chinesse cars are the best products out of Asia, better then cars from Japan.

[chinamonty]

I would disagree that Chinese cars are better than Japanese cars. They are still a generation behind except in joint ventures.
I don't think I would be telling the Muslim people in Urumqi that they have more freedom at the moment though.

[Drive_Fast]

Originally Posted by chinamonty

I would disagree that Chinese cars are better than Japanese cars. They are still a generation behind except in joint ventures.
I don't think I would be telling the Muslim people in Urumqi that they have more freedom at the moment though.

saw this video of a gm car that was crash tested a holden comadore. seems that chinesees cars may be safer then this one comadore. granted the car was crashed at 62mph. to me a crash at 62 is common and can happen we should design cars to crash at up to 120mph to be on the safe side.... also one world standard for auto regulations would save money....
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/06/v...-leave-a-mark/ for the you tube video below

+ YouTube Video

[chinamonty]

It doesn't look like a Commodore to me -even an early VB one -the shape of the trunk is wrong. It looks more like a Toyota Corona taxi they use in Hong Kong. It was done at Crashlab which is in Sydney so I amy be wrong. If it was an Australian car it was a long time ago and only a Benz or Volvo would have done better. I have just found that test. It was at 140kph 87mph so no wonder it destroyed itself. The car was a "cut and shut" and the purpose of the video was to discourage people from that practise -they have convinced me. A Honda would be tinfoil at that speed.
Have a look at more recent tests
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/crashlab/

[killerrd2]

A federal bankruptcy judge has green-lighted creation of a "new GM," which could emerge as early as Thursday. But the real Great Power drama in the dismemberment of General Motors Corp. is out East -- Far East.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's Kremlin ally, Sberbank, is in the final stages of talks to acquire a controlling 35 percent stake in GM's Adam Opel GmbH unit in Germany and, in theory, gain control of Opel's access to the intellectual property of GM. Imagine the possibilities for an empire builder like Putin if a Russian automaker, and its future partners, won rights to GM's technology trove.

That's one reason GM's talks with Sberbank and Magna International Inc. are encountering difficulty, according to two sources close to the situation. GM cannot allow a foreign rival, its would-be partners and their "friends" in an autocratic government access to the intellectual property undergirding its global product portfolio from Detroit, Ruesselsheim and Sao Paolo to Moscow, Beijing and Delhi.

Another reason: Chevrolet. Of the 375,000 or so vehicles GM sold Russians last year, roughly 80,000 carried Opel badges. The balance were Chevy-brand vehicles assembled in St. Petersburg, Kaliningrad, Ukraine and GM's joint venture with AvtoVAZ in Togliatti -- many of them built from kits shipped by GM's Daewoo Automotive Technologies in South Korea.

Just asking, but if a consortium of Sberbank, Magna, GM and Opel's employees own Opel with backing by the German government, would production and sales of Chevys in Russia remain with the new GM? They should, if Chevrolet is a cornerstone of the new GM and if the new GM is determined to remain a player in global growth markets.

China, a historic Russian antagonist, is in the game, too. Beijing Automotive is preparing to make a formal bid for Opel, a linchpin of GM's global product development. Gaining control of Opel would buy the Chinese instant credibility and would deprive fledgling Russian rivals the play for respectability they so badly want as their consumers steadily push Russia toward top-tier status in global auto markets.

Great Power politics? You bet, with more than two rivals vying for the German assets of an American automaker. There have been Italians of Fiat SpA; the Austrians and Canadians of Magna; the Germans, desperate to retain the Opel jobs with as little cash outlay as possible; and the British and the Belgians who have little hope of saving their costly pieces of the GM empire.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...lls+Opel+talks

Who says the Soviet Union is dead? Only the naifs who don't recognize power politics for what it is and what it wants.

[ne_one]

So given the amount of money required and perceived risk, why not partner with Magna for an increased share of Opel and sidestep the Russian and Chinese contingents?