STS eclipsed by CTS

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

We're already 2-3 years into the UltraV8 delay. I'd expect a 2010 MY CTS with the engine. Still crossing my fingers that it is 2010, so I can run it against a 2010 XF.

I just hope that engine, when it comes,will be up to the task of competing against others. It's taking too long.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by Rich59

With the supposed delay of the STS/DTS replacement, has the next generation Northstar (Ultra V8) also been delayed? Please tell me “NO”! If not, can we expect this motor in the 2010 MY CTS? Maybe in a coupe version?

Originally the Ultra was to be released in 2008, the new CTS should have launched with it.

The first delay was back in 2006 when it was delayed to 2009 (this was due to money issues). The second delay which happened this past year was due to priorities. The Volt, Hybrids, and Small Car budgets (think Alpha) have superseded the Ultra V8, so it was set back to 2010.

I don't think the engine will be pushed back, the STS/DTS has also been pushed back 2 years, unlike the engine that project could see another one year delay.

[Rich59]

So the 2010 MY CTS will get the Northstar Ultra but the CTS MCE won’t come until MY 2011? With the current STS due to disappear after MY 2009, it would seem to make sense to incorporate the CTS MCE and Northstar Ultra for MY 2010. I realize this is all speculation, but I’m just trying to get my head around Cadillac’s reasoning with all this. They’re currently in a favorable position to re-establish the brand here, then we hear they’ll be fielding the current DTS through MY 2012. I can’t even bring myself to say thjs out loud. I don’t even want to think of what the automotive press will be writing about large Cadillacs (something Cadillac once did better than anyone) in 2012!!! Please, give me something to believe in here. Something to look forward to.

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by AMcA

What's saddest about that is that GM is putting the resources it would put into this magnificent new Caddy into trying to prop up Pontiac, save Saab, support Saturn, grow GMC . . . and on and on and on.

True, but in theory each division should be able to suuport itself.
Each division should have the resources to keep it fresh and relevant.
But each division doesn't because we got 4 versions of the same car for every single division 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by mgescuro

2010 XF.

Jag certainly has some impressive products as of now and in the not too distant future.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by Rich59

So the 2010 MY CTS will get the Northstar Ultra but the CTS MCE won’t come until MY 2011? With the current STS due to disappear after MY 2009, it would seem to make sense to incorporate the CTS MCE and Northstar Ultra for MY 2010. I realize this is all speculation, but I’m just trying to get my head around Cadillac’s reasoning with all this. They’re currently in a favorable position to re-establish the brand here, then we hear they’ll be fielding the current DTS through MY 2012. I can’t even bring myself to say thjs out loud. I don’t even want to think of what the automotive press will be writing about large Cadillacs (something Cadillac once did better than anyone) in 2012!!! Please, give me something to believe in here. Something to look forward to.

Saab just did that, a multi year MCE.

Look at the 2006,7,8 9-3. 2006, new top engine, 2007 new interior, 2008 new exterior.

[aldw]

Perhaps it would have been better to ensure that every penny Caddy makes is prioritized to improving it first, before using those earnings on other divisions.

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Saab just did that, a multi year MCE.

Look at the 2006,7,8 9-3. 2006, new top engine, 2007 new interior, 2008 new exterior.

So cts will get new v8 before model refreshment.Nice .

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by asrapid

So cts will get new v8 before model refreshment.Nice .

It is possible. I think they can launch the Coupe and Wagon with the V8.

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

It is possible. I think they can launch the Coupe and Wagon with the V8.

What car class is CTS coupe aiming? I mean if CTS will be 5 series competition and cts coupe is based on sedan version wouldn't that make CTS coupe too big and and too heavy to go against bmw 3 coupe?

[jasaero]

Originally Posted by asrapid

What car class is CTS coupe aiming? I mean if CTS will be 5 series competition and cts coupe is based on sedan version wouldn't that make CTS coupe too big and and too heavy to go against bmw 3 coupe?

Think you are right here. This means it's going more after the 6-series and maybe A5/S5. Which would make it seem it will be needing that V8.

[TT C6]

Where can I find a link to road tests of the AWD CTS?

I can't find a test with measured 1/4 mile, curb weight, or 0-60-0, anywhere.
Thank you.

[throwback]

On friday 11/30 I drove 2 CTS sedans, here is my 2 cents. I took my SAAB 9-3 in for an oil change, the dealer also sells Caddys. So as if tempting fate I wander into the showroom. A sales guy sees me checking out a CTS and asks if I want to drive one. Well if you insist! I drove a base CTS with the panaramic roof first. Wow, great steering and handling the car while heavier than my 9-3, carried the weight well, low in the chassis. Then I drove a AWD DI sport package car. It made the base car seem floaty and slow! The steering was not as crisp, probably due to the AWD but the DI engine was strong, passing with ease even with the additional weight of the AWD. My only gripe is the gauges, they are too small, it's like looking down tunnels to see the gauges. I suggest they go to a 2 dial arrangement with bigger dials and an analog gas gauge. As for the STS, the only advantage I see it has over the CTS is a larger back seat and clearer gauges. Styling is subjective but the CTS is just stunning, the proportions spot on, there is not a bad line on the car. I almost bought but, it was more than I was willing to pay on a car payment. I still may buy one, who knows what may happen next time I go for an oil change, I need to stay out of that damn show room.

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by throwback

On friday 11/30 I drove 2 CTS sedans, here is my 2 cents. I took my SAAB 9-3 in for an oil change, the dealer also sells Caddys. So as if tempting fate I wander into the showroom. A sales guy sees me checking out a CTS and asks if I want to drive one. Well if you insist! I drove a base CTS with the panaramic roof first. Wow, great steering and handling the car while heavier than my 9-3, carried the weight well, low in the chassis. Then I drove a AWD DI sport package car. It made the base car seem floaty and slow! The steering was not as crisp, probably due to the AWD but the DI engine was strong, passing with ease even with the additional weight of the AWD. My only gripe is the gauges, they are too small, it's like looking down tunnels to see the gauges. I suggest they go to a 2 dial arrangement with bigger dials and an analog gas gauge. As for the STS, the only advantage I see it has over the CTS is a larger back seat and clearer gauges. Styling is subjective but the CTS is just stunning, the proportions spot on, there is not a bad line on the car. I almost bought but, it was more than I was willing to pay on a car payment. I still may buy one, who knows what may happen next time I go for an oil change, I need to stay out of that damn show room.

Yeah, or you may end up buying a new CTS.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by asrapid

What car class is CTS coupe aiming? I mean if CTS will be 5 series competition and cts coupe is based on sedan version wouldn't that make CTS coupe too big and and too heavy to go against bmw 3 coupe?

Just because a car is the same size and weight as another car, that doesn't make it a competitor. We can keep saying this over and over, but it won't make it true. Ask anyone who has bought a "5" if they thought about a CTS, or better what they think about the CTS... Your chances of getting a potential "5" buyer into this car is zilch

While it is bigger and heavier the CTS competes with the "3" and the CTS-V competes with the M3. The CTS does not have the panache or features of a 5 Series.

The fact there is even a debate over this illustrates a serious issue with the Caddy line up...

Mgescuro has pointed this out a few times... Are we competing with the Germans? Lexus? Are we competing with other GM products? Right now the CTS competes mostly with the STS and other GM products (and its kicking butt) but is this our goal? Is this a good thing?

This seems GM's marketing plan, take a winning, well recognized brand or make, bleed it to death, wonder what went wrong, and then start from scratch.

Bye Bye STS. I'll miss you.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Just because a car is the same size and weight as another car, that doesn't make it a competitor. We can keep saying this over and over, but it won't make it true. Ask anyone who has bought a "5" if they thought about a CTS, or better what they think about the CTS... Your chances of getting a potential "5" buyer into this car is zilch

While it is bigger and heavier the CTS competes with the "3" and the CTS-V competes with the M3. The CTS does not have the panache or features of a 5 Series.

The fact there is even a debate over this illustrates a serious issue with the Caddy line up...

Mgescuro has pointed this out a few times... Are we competing with the Germans? Lexus? Are we competing with other GM products? Right now the CTS competes mostly with the STS (and its kicking its butt) but is this our goal? Is this a good thing?

Greetings 2002 Caddy,

First, happy holidays to you and your family.

I am not sure I disagree, but it really is up to the luxury buyer, not reviewers or critics. I recently went along with a friend looking at Acura's TL, Cadillac's CTS/STS and Infiniti's M/G sedans and BMW 5/3 sedans. Interesting enough, size and comfort became the key requirements when these cars were crossed shopped. In the end their was a preference for Infiniti's M35x and the comments for Cadillac were very simple, they liked the CTS, with the STS being second due to price and features. BMW 5/3 the least liked for its styling and price was the least competitive of the group and the judged as worse in ride quality. Last was the Acura TL, which they thought was the best value, but the oldest platform and it shows it in their view.

I really think one can compare from both vantage points if you are buying in regards to the CTS due to its midsize and compariative pricing to BMW 3 and Mercedes-Benz's C class of luxury sedans. It is a logical comparison unless a luxury buyer truly wants a compact size luxury sport sedan versus midsize.

JLM