Only@GMI: Cadillac Zeta Car Rumored Dead

[emh]

Originally Posted by Docray1

The development of the next generation Cadillac Sedans will start from the beginning later this year.

How much money has GM squandered away on projects that are killed after going through non-trivial design/development effort? Must be hundreds of millions, if not billions, at Cadillac alone just in the past few years (DT7, CTS MCE, Ultra V8, TT V6, gen 2 XLR, "ULS"). That's not even counting botched MCEs (XLR, STS). Can GM/Cadillac management be any worse?

Docray1, you've generally been optimistic and restrained even when breaking bad news. There's a tangible sense of disspointment in your most recent posts... I take it even you've run out of patience.

[eaton53]

How long will it take for BMW to have an equal or better answer? Probably not long..

Considering they're not close (their measly 383 lb/ft vs. 500 hp is Honda S2000-like) there may not be an answer for quite awhile... and when there is one good luck getting it for under $100K.

They might just choose a strategy from the past... get their ass kicked by a GM/Ford legend (Cobra, GT40, etc.) for a few years, let the Americans make their point and then withdraw. This has happened several times in the past... every so often the Americans decide to get out the Really Big Guns.

In the near future there will be two of these, the CTS-V and ZR1. I won't be at all surprised if they become CAFE casualties and join the legends, leaving the Germans to play among themselves. But they'll be really something while they're here...

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Considering they're not close (their measly 383 lb/ft vs. 500 hp is Honda S2000-like) there may not be an answer for quite awhile... and when there is one good luck getting it for under $100K.

They might just choose a strategy from the past... get their ass kicked by a GM/Ford legend (Cobra, GT40, etc.) for a few years, let the Americans make their point and then withdraw. This has happened several times in the past... every so often the Americans decide to get out the Really Big Guns.

In the near future there will be two of these, the CTS-V and ZR1. I won't be at all surprised if they become CAFE casualties and join the legends, leaving the Germans to play among themselves. But they'll be really something while they're here...

The next M5 will be twin turbod. That will be plenty close.

[Slick_Holden]

Originally Posted by eaton53

I don't think so.
I love the G8... awesome car.

The G8 was not in this argument..

It was said, With my Aussie Accent..... The Holden is cheap and not premium.
Why, Because the caddy competes with BMW etc ?..
But it doesn't matter that this Holden was bench marked against BMW M5 etc etc, No.. Nor the fact in test's it won many battles againts the worlds best BMW and Mercedes also no no.
And of course we see it was almost a premium version for Caddy?..
Does that mean this, The Caddy is not premium, But the Holden is.

See it's very flexible this U.S named Zeta We call it VE..
It can be made into premium versions, Shame GM isn't going to hand it around like first thought.


The argument was about the Caddy being sold in Australia, Price wise it's to be sold as a premium brand, Very expensive, We said how can you justify selling a car that is, Say 25-35k more then a VE Calais-V.
Which offers the same engine and transmission we can buy on a 39k VE SV6.
Which is just a sporty car. Pay a little extra and get the same engine etc on the Calais, For a few more thousand.
Or take the price of the Caddy, And take the best Holden VE made, The GTS.
LS3 etc. It's strange..
We were promptly told the VE is not in the same class, I beg to differ, Many variants come from that one car and it's only just begun.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by schmallz

The next M5 will be twin turbod. That will be plenty close.

Not for the same money as now.
They're gonna be like Porsche, going way up in price just to try to hang with the Vettes.

It can be made into premium versions, Shame GM isn't going to hand it around like first thought.

They were going to hand it around until gas prices took off.
IMO the VE platform would make a very good Cadillac, or Buick, or Pontiac.

The argument was about the Caddy being sold in Australia, Price wise it's to be sold as a premium brand, Very expensive, We said how can you justify selling a car that is, Say 25-35k more then a VE Calais-V.

Sigma costs more than Zeta.
That Zeta can do what it does for its cost speaks well of its engineering... or poorly of Sigmas, you decide which.
Plus luxury brands jack up their prices. See Camrys with L's on them for an example.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Then, if Cadillac really wants to get serious, put in the front engine bay of the CTS-V, and give it the full-tilt Corvette ZR1 V8, for a REAL STS-V.

Personally, I think the only V Series cars should be the CTS's.

[vette61]

what cadillac needs to do is bring the sixteen to production. build the cts coupe and wagon. replace the sts with a daringly styled seville. get off this letters kick.

[slowinthefastlane]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Personally, I think the only V Series cars should be the CTS's.

No XLR-V?

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by slowinthefastlane

No XLR-V?

After 2011/12, there won't be a XLR, V series or otherwise.

The V series, apart from the CTS, are flops in the market. Whenever I see a STS-V or XLR-V at a dealer it always has a big "price reduction, please buy me" sign on it. Applying the "V" treatment to so many Cadillac models was a mistake. The XLR-V as it is today will probably continue for a while, until GM closes or retools the plant that makes the Northstar engnes.

There is a CTS-V sedan and there will be a V version of the coupe:
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...e-spied-68081/

I think it should end there.

[Slick_Holden]

Originally Posted by eaton53

They were going to hand it around until gas prices took off.

I don't know why, The U.S still pays less per litre then most nations, Including ours.

IMO the VE platform would make a very good Cadillac, or Buick, or Pontiac.Sigma costs more than Zeta.

I don't know it wasn't cheap, Cost Holden Billion

That Zeta can do what it does for its cost speaks well of its engineering... or poorly of Sigmas, you decide which.
Plus luxury brands jack up their prices. See Camrys with L's on them for an example.

They are very similar in build..

Camry, I think Cheap, Not Luxury.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by vette61

what Cadillac needs to do is bring the sixteen to production. build the CTS coupe and wagon. replace the STS with a daringly styled Seville. get off this letters kick.

Hi Vette61:

As much as I would have liked the Sixteen 5 years ago, it's now dated and overexposed! The technologies being shown by Mercedes Benz, and will soon be introduced by BMW make the Sixteen now old hat. If the Sixteen had been made, and was now ready for an update, then I believe Cadillac would have really made a hit, for the last several years.

What's needed now, after a big Cash Transfusion, is a Luxury Full/Mid Sized Cadillac, no amenities spared (Seville) with a sports model, and introduced with the Northstar 4.4 V engine. Also there should be a long range Turbo Diesel V6 engine, and a price leader V6 3.0 engine (one made with balance shafts, and completely free of the cheap feeling CTS V6 engines).

Also running changes need to be made to the CTS, with updated engine offerings, and available magnetic ride control option.

[Millefune]

Slick Holden, when he said "Camrys with L's on them," he meant Lexus.

[Slick_Holden]

Originally Posted by Millefune

Slick Holden, when he said "Camrys with L's on them," he meant Lexus.

Same car, Trying to be something different.
But it's like Holden and HSV. Same cars, Different personality's.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by Slick_Holden

Same car, Trying to be something different.
But it's like Holden and HSV. Same cars, Different personality's.

I like Holden's take on it a lot better than Toyota's.

[jbartley]

all GM has to do is bring over the SLS.

the interior and size will take it out of competition with the CTS, and it can't be that expensive to make. the engineering was already done. tweak the exterior and BAMN brand new STS. duhhhh GM.