Only@GMI: Cadillac Zeta Car Rumored Dead

[mikmak]

Or of course the LWB version




Just sharpen up the edges a little.

[RedVee8]

^^^^ Plus you have the Park Ave interior and the SLS to use as required for zeta inspiration.

In the meantime keep the STS going, add the SLS. Or replace the STS with the SLS.
I can't fathom that GM would just stop producing both the STS and DTS? Surely, they mean that they'll just keep one or both of them in production past their scheduled replacement date???

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by megeebee

In all seriousness, thank you. I'm flattered you found so much to agree with in my post.

One point: The CTS already hits $50K in AWD/ fully loaded guise.

I would start STS at about that price. The Northstar is all but gone anyway. Kill it. The new DI 6 is so good it has rendered the Northstar useless. Keep standard equipment rich and high. Options few, like Nav, sunroof, and 19" wheels. And a Platinum Edition above that. That's all. 2 trims. 3 factory configurations.

I will say this about the Lincoln. They have learned a good lesson in wheel size. The MKS STARTS with 18's and goes up from there. As I wrote, the STS is made ridiculous by the 17's most of them are sent out with. As everyone knows, I dislke the MKS intently. But at least it's NOT handicapped by its maker with puny rolling stock.

None of this is as good as a new, modern, competitive car for the Cadillac name. And I don't pretend to know what the Board of GM knows. But given what is the situation now, I can't see dumping a car like STS if it is not necessary. The DTS, for the sake of the brand, needs to go. The STS could continue with some fiddling like this and Cadillac would have at least a credible place holder in the upper market. Temporarily.

Exactly. Although I have issues with the STS, it's better than nothing, or the DTS, for that matter.

As for the STS-V getting ripped on for having pushrods... who cares. If Cadillac is going down, they might as well go down tires squealing.

[Docray1]

Well, now the mainstream press is on to this. . .

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...SS01/808130345

The Zeta II based "DT7" is now dead. The development of the next generation Cadillac Sedans will start from the beginning later this year. That means - at the earliest- there will be no new model until late 2013.

The fat lady is walking up to the microphone for Cadillac. . .

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by Docray1

Well, now the mainstream press is on to this. . .

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...SS01/808130345

The Zeta II based "DT7" is now dead. The development of the next generation Cadillac Sedans will start from the beginning later this year. That means - at the earliest- there will be no new model until late 2013.

The fat lady is walking up to the microphone for Cadillac. . .

So here we go again..they will probably decide to delay development ..in 2012..until 2018 or something like that.
GM should sell Cadillac now when they have at least one good car (CTS) to firm which will put more money in it.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Docray1

Well, now the mainstream press is on to this. . .

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...SS01/808130345

The Zeta II based "DT7" is now dead. The development of the next generation Cadillac Sedans will start from the beginning later this year. That means - at the earliest- there will be no new model until late 2013.

The fat lady is walking up to the microphone for Cadillac. . .

Starting from scratch?

From WHAT architecture? Why wouldn't it be Zeta? What alternatives are there? Chi? Epsilon? GMT-900???

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Starting from scratch?

From WHAT architecture? Why wouldn't it be Zeta? What alternatives are there? Chi? Epsilon? GMT-900???

Precisely my reaction. I wonder just what they have up their sleeves.

Does this mean that the huge investment in Zeta and the plant to build it in NA will be applied only to the Camaro?

Sigma? I read someplace that the current STS was about as large as a Sigma car could get.

Or, perhaps they feel the original program on the Zeta architecture has been so compromised through the start-stop-start-stop of the last couple years that they want to start with a clean slate. In the long run, that may not be a bad idea. The design as it exists today would be fairly old by the time it reached showrooms. And there may have been some developments that GM wants to include that weren't around when the "DT7" was completed?

It stll leaves the question of what to do in the mean time open.

(Grasping at straws is fun. I wish I could get a job doing this. I'd be great)


.


.

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Schmallz:

I highlighted the part of your comment that I don't understand? I thought the one "bringing home the bacon," was the most important in this household? Or perhaps you think it's the one that saves .50 on groceries?

Sarcasm aside: GM requires big cash to survive; small profits associated with small cars won't pay the bills. First of all, at this time they won't sell that many. The Credit crunch and falling credit from the reports I've seen makes all manufacturer's reliant upon seeking those who can pay. With other issues to face a company must get the most amount of money available from each sale.

That is not exclusive, or admired, or luxury for that matter.

Tell me, what other Top Tier Luxury brand offers there biggest car for 45,000

None, and that is why Cadillac is down and why Cadillac will stay down.

[Z284ever]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Does this mean that the huge investment in Zeta and the plant to build it in NA will be applied only to the Camaro?



.

It's seems that that is EXACTLY going to be the case here. A beancounter's nightmare.

On top of that, and more importantly (or rather ominously considering the times), Camaro gets left holding the bag for being based on a two ton sedan architecture - for which now, there are no sedans.

Kind of a clusterfvck, if you ask me.

[Sal Collaziano]

Yeah, especially width - which is what I appreciate most in a full-size car... Thanks for posting the numbers up...

Originally Posted by wescoent

Town Car:

Headroom (Front) 39.4
Headroom (Row 2) 37.4
Hiproom (Front) 57.3
Hiproom (Row 2) 58.0
Legroom (Front) 41.7
Legroom (Row 2) 39.6
Shoulder Room (Front) 60.3
Shoulder Room (Row 2) 59.9

Cargo Volume (MFR) 21.0 cu. ft.
Fuel Capacity 19.0
Passenger Volume (MFR) 108.7

Lincoln MKS

Headroom (Front) 39.7
Headroom (Row 2) 38.6
Hiproom (Front) 55.3
Hiproom (Row 2) 55.3
Legroom (Front) 41.9
Legroom (Row 2) 38.6
Shoulder Room (Front) 58.6
Shoulder Room (Row 2) 57.4

Cargo Volume (MFR) 18.4 cu. ft.
Fuel Capacity 19.0
Passenger Volume (MFR) 105.8

Oops! I could have sworn that the MKS was roomier in all dimensions but width... looks like the old dinosaur wins in many categories by an inch or two.

[Sal Collaziano]

Unfortunately, the CTS-V isn't coming until at least December.. BMW has been well-aware of the performance the CTS-V brings to the game. How long will it take for BMW to have an equal or better answer? Probably not long.. It's aggravating how long it's taking for Cadillac to bring this car to market. It was supposed to be here in Fall - now it's Winter. Hopefully come Winter, it won't be next Spring... The longer it takes, the less time we have with a car better than the BMW M5...

Originally Posted by eaton53

Smoking Germans with that crazy motor they put in there. Chump Euros can't even get past 450 lb/ft.
But they do have a lot of cams and fancy whirry gizmos. You'd think they'd make a little more power.

And then there's the sub-8 minute Ring time (the fastest production sedan ever, even with an automatic), the sub 4-second 0-60 (two of the three you mentioned can't even break 4.5), MRC (good enough for Ferrari... and Audi's best car) and Cadillac's patented rear axle design that eliminates wheel hop without electronic intervention.

Oh, and I expect Clarkson to trash it, just because.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

Unfortunately, the CTS-V isn't coming until at least December.. BMW has been well-aware of the performance the CTS-V brings to the game. How long will it take for BMW to have an equal or better answer? Probably not long.. It's aggravating how long it's taking for Cadillac to bring this car to market. It was supposed to be here in Fall - now it's Winter. Hopefully come Winter, it won't be next Spring... The longer it takes, the less time we have with a car better than the BMW M5...

CTS-V should be chasing the E63, not the M5. Simply the wrong car for Cadillac.

[nota]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Does this mean that the huge investment in Zeta and the plant to build it in NA will be applied only to the Camaro?

Sigma? I read someplace that the current STS was about as large as a Sigma car could get.

Or, perhaps they feel the original program on the Zeta architecture has been so compromised through the start-stop-start-stop of the last couple years that they want to start with a clean slate.

Holden's VE architecture (later called Zeta in the US) was a continual effort, the start-stop-start-stop bit applies to US adoption

However I have read that GM-NA extracted $300M from funds dedicated to the Holden-funded VE program (hence its somewhat underbaked interior) for repatriation to ameliorate US losses

Originally Posted by VE planning director

[on VE genesis]

.. it was important to have a certain-size vehicle, specifically things like interior width, legroom. No matter what way they pulled and pushed the Cadillac [Sigma] architecture at that time, it really had some serious constraints. We decided we really couldn't deliver a Commodore off that platform.

[Sal Collaziano]

I agree.. Still, same goes.. If they take forever to get it out, something better is going to come along that much sooner...

Originally Posted by wescoent

CTS-V should be chasing the E63, not the M5. Simply the wrong car for Cadillac.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by nota

Holden's VE architecture (later called Zeta in the US) was a continual effort, the start-stop-start-stop bit applies to US adoption

However I have read that GM-NA extracted $300M from funds dedicated to the Holden-funded VE program (hence its somewhat underbaked interior) for repatriation to ameliorate US losses

Peter...meet Paul.