Only@GMI: Cadillac Zeta Car Rumored Dead

[Tomko]

I just read another source that is reporting the following:

"(08.05.08) - Many upper echelon Cadillac Executives are working looking to have the decision of dealying or canceling the STS/DTS replacement overturned. The delay or cancelation of other projects to free up funds for Cadillac’s flagship sedan are being considered."

[osv_alero]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

I think this is unofficially the end of the "Renaissance"...

Only if this was true.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Tomko

I just read another source that is reporting the following:

"(08.05.08) - Many upper echelon Cadillac Executives are working looking to have the decision of dealying or canceling the STS/DTS replacement overturned. The delay or cancelation of other projects to free up funds for Cadillac’s flagship sedan are being considered."

It doesn't help when the other source took it from here...

[Docray1]

Originally Posted by enzodually

You've seen it?! I know you probably have to lie and say you haven't or that your friend described it to you or something but wow, all of us Cadillac nuts dream about getting such an opportunity. Some have said that an unnamed executive saw it and said, "it looks like a f*%in' Bentely!" and similar rumors have suggested this too, that it's or was gorgeous. Just recently however you said its been compromised so much that it's really not all that great and that this chop job is even possibly as nice or nicer than what Cad came up with (with some sarcasm im sure). What are your thoughts, is it so bland that we should all just relax and be glad that something better will come than this car later on (hopefully) or do you think we all would have been happy enough with it to buy one anyways?

I have not seen the car. Descriptions fit the photoshop on this board, including the high cowl and the low, Sixteen-like grille in the front fenders. The "final" iteration of the design was being criticized for odd front headlights and the grille which were thought to be "overdone".

[Docray1]

Originally Posted by fp115

It doesn't help when the other source took it from here...

You might want to check your facts as to which "source" reported the information first. This "rumor" is more "fact" than you want to believe; it will be interesting to see what the "source" of the GMI "rumor" is.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by slowinthefastlane

You're talking about Ellis-Brooks, right? If so, you're correct. Even the brand-new Ford/Lincoln shop next door puts it to shame. Putnam Cadillac in Burlingame is also an embarrassment.

St. Claire Cadillac in Santa Clara is pretty good. They have a new building and everything.

Oh yes. Absolutely... Ellis Brooks on Van Ness. A complete embarrassment. A building so poorly kept, with scatter broken windows on the upper levels.... unpainted signs, and tacky window paint announcing the current sale of the week.
How they can sell ALL GM cars is beyond me...... But Impalas sit next to 9-3 convertibles and STS's and Corvettes.
I want to cry every time I drive by.

Putnam Cadillac in Burlingame had all their CTS's sitting in the back, underneath a tree. They had 10 corvettes in front. The salesman there told me that a Malibu was exactly the same car as a 9-3. I silently agreed... but man oh man... that was stupid.

Serramonte Cadillac is another pathetic dealership that told me "too bad" for driving a Jaguar, blowing cigarette smoke in my face... and walking away...

I live too far from St. Claire Cadillac. And I"m not going to drive 40 minutes to get their either.

There isn't a Cadillac dealership in my general vicinity that I would want to give my money to. And that in and of itself should be a wakeup call for GM. but it's not.

Originally Posted by big swede

mgescuro must be lost at sea.

I've already made my comments....



I dunno whether to be mad... or sad... but somehow, deep down, I knew it was coming.
And it's the culmination of 3 years of my bitching and moaning about what's should have been going on at Cadillac but hasn't been.

[enzodually]

Originally Posted by slowinthefastlane

You're talking about Ellis-Brooks, right? If so, you're correct. Even the brand-new Ford/Lincoln shop next door puts it to shame. Putnam Cadillac in Burlingame is also an embarrassment.

St. Claire Cadillac in Santa Clara is pretty good. They have a new building and everything.

Yes it's nice, I was excited to see the dealership I use to service my luxury car actually look luxurious, their old larger facility (now a fresh BMW store) made you think Dean Martin could have just been in there buying a new '67 Eldorado. Unfortunately good taste has already gone out the window though! You can't even see the new building due to hundreds of red white and blue glittery tinsel flags and baloons that seem to be permanent. Even the front row of cars that line Stevens Creek Blvd, which sees probably a million cars a day, are all used cars consisting of, and I'm not exaggerating, Kias, Toyotas, Acuras, etc. I can't believe Cadillac didn't make rules against this type of thing. You sure as hell would never see that at any of Cadillacs competitors. (lincoln excepted)

[Griffen427]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

It's kinda funny hearing the words "aging" mixed with "Buick Lucerne". The car has been on the market for a little over two years and it's already "old". If GM would build products AHEAD of the curve instead of behind, maybe their new products wouldn't be old so shortly after the roll out of the showroom...

When they refer to the Lucerne as "aging" they mean all of its underpinnings. The platform it rides on and V6 it uses have been for around for over 20 years. Regardless of all the nice stuff they may stuff the interior with, or the external curves, the design is old - just like the DTS. It would be like your 80 year-old grandmother getting a tummy tuck, face lift, and botox injections - she may look good, but she's still quite old underneath.

[nadepalma]

Got to the discussion late and didn't have a chance to read many posts - but I take this idea isn't too popular thus far on GMI?!?

I can see only two reasons GM would do this - CAFE and/or cost.

If it's CAFE, there is no reason to believe that GM couldn't make up for the CAFE loss it would experience on the DTS's replacement on other, more fuel efficient products. Chances are that they would sell only 30,000 to 40,000 flagship units per year - so why couldn't selling a few more Cruzes, Aveos, or Astras per year to make up for it?

If it is a matter of cost in light of model reshuffling, then there is no reason to think that GM couldn't postpone the program for a year or so.

Failing that, then why not reuse what GM already has available for the basis of the DTS/STS replacement? We know from the Chinese market SLS that the Sigma platform can be stretched and widened to accomodate a larger product than the US market STS. Why not take that basic platform and create a DTS/STS replacement based on it? Any mechanical updates can be taken from the new CTS and GM's design studio could do a complete redo inside and out to make it appear like an all new product --- just as the CTS has been redone.

Assuming GM may be halting a Caddy Zeta car due to cost, then reusing the Sigma platform may be the best solution. Since the Sigma platform is already up and running, it wouldn't cost GM anything extra to produce it in Michigan alongside the CTS (and the SRX for a bit longer). Afterall, it isn't as if the Sigma platform is an outdated architecture; just a bit pricey to produce.


Chinese market Cadillac SLS

Originally Posted by Ultra Magnus

If this is in fact true and Cadillac has no world class flagship, Cadillac has proven that the CTS was a one hit wonder.

Quite true - what is BMW without the 7-Series or Benz without the S-Class to showcase their technology?

[Firebird00]

How stupid on GMs part. People that buy Cadillacs don't care about fuel economy, price, or stuff like that. They want electronic gimics, cool styling and things of this nature. Cadillac must have a top notch image car. However, given GMs financial mess they can't dig out of they're probably down to selling office furniture to stay alive so there probably won't be any new anything for anybody for a little while.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by markform

I think you are right. Funny how things turn out though. I sold cars when Lexus arrived, and the Cadillac people were extremely arrogant about it. Their attitude was, "Lexus competes with BMW and Mercedes, not Cadillac. And just remember who's #1 in luxury car sales....Cadillac!" Turns out they were right. They just never realized B, M and L were competing for a huge growth market, leaving Cadillac to feast on dying market.

Of course I'm right. And this is one time I wish I weren't.
But this is a standard textbook case of a product being pushed out of the market for failing to recognize changing market dynamics. When a new "game changing" entrant appears in the marketplace, the existing leaders must adapt and change; otherwise, they will leave a window of opportunity for a foothold to be gained. And that is exactly what Cadillac (and Lincoln) did!
What did the Europeans do? Exactly the same thing the Americans did -- they balked too. But they all realized what was going on. If they were to continue their rise in marketshare and mindshare in the hotly contested US market, they needed to recognize the newcomer and put up a fight. And they did.

But by the time Cadillac quit dawdling with FWD cars and CTS came to market, the next-next generation BMW and Mercs were already on their way, blowing right by CTS. CTS might have been Cadillac's best effort, but it had no chance.

The Germans didn't come out of this battle with Lexus unscathed. Mercedes lost its reputation for over-built cars. But they're retooling themselves as fast as they can. And now Lexus has produced its first truly credible competitor to the S-Class. It still completely missed the target, but it's closer than ever before. It's a very credible warning shot.

Do you think Mercedes will rest on its laurels? You can bet the 10th Gen S-Class will exceed even what we can dream up today.

The point is, the luxury market is one of oneupsmanship. Lexus came on board, the Germans redoubled. Lexus tried again, the Germans redoubled and exceeded.

Cadillac barely keeping afloat. Its cars never matched the prestige offered by its rivals. It might have matched them in performance, but that's only one characteristic of a luxury car. And that's something I've said since I joined GMI. Luxury is more than HP and leather and technology. It's about image. And today's Cadillac failed to deliver on image.

Originally Posted by markform

Yeesh. You're right about Bay Area Cadillac dealers. But Ellis Brooks is the biggest dump of them all.

It is one big dump. I wouldn't buy a car there. The entire place is right out of some Crazy Eddy commerical.

http://www.mapjack.com/?vdAnWfv4bFDE

[Kheiron]

wow, makes you wonder if the alpha cadillac will get cancelled?

maybe GM should sell Cadillac if they are going to castrate them and not give them the tools to succeed. I'm not in the market for a zeta Cadillac, but I was really looking forward to seeing it!

Hopefully this is just a rumor...

[jgill16]

Why is everybody talking about the DTS, who care about that car, The STS has always been Cadillac's flagship car please people don't get it twisted.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jgill16

Why is everybody talking about the DTS, who care about that car, The STS has always been Cadillac's flagship car please people don't get it twisted.

Historically, the Fleetwood has been Cadillac's flagship.
DeVille took that over when Fleetwood died.
Seville/STS took that over in the mid/late 1990's on to the present day.

If Cadillac were to create a true S-Class competitor, that car should technically be called the Fleetwood, as it is the flagship and has always been the flagship of the Cadillac marque.
Back in the 1950's the Fleetwood competed with the Rolls of the day.

That just puts everything into perspective to see just how far Cadillac has fallen, huh?

[jgill16]

Hey Mgescuro, if Cadillac was to built a true S-class what do you think of the name Cadillac FLX. Does it sound like catchy name or does it sound ***.LOL