GMI Talks With Top Brass About Cadillac, Aveo

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Olds88

Isn't Buick supposed to be "lesser Cadillac"?

Buick's doing an awesome job with itself. Whoever is in control of Buick needs a raise.

And yes... traditionally, Buick was the "lesser Cadillac."

[Neanderthal]

Who's that doofus over on the left?

[King Riffle]

Bleh. I was hoping for something on the Aveo.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by OLDSCHOOLGMFAN

I like what I hear about the XTS!

I still think the ATS is a waste of time and money, and I don't give a crap about the Aveo.

The XTS isn't going to be anything super.....

The ATS is probably going to be one of the most important Cadillac's in the history of Cadillac (if they get it right).

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Buick's doing an awesome job with itself. Whoever is in control of Buick needs a raise.

And yes... traditionally, Buick was the "lesser Cadillac."

This is what I said to myself when I said that the XTS is a huge mistake and this is a vehicle that fits the brand image that Buick should be going after.

If they just mix up the two brands then there is no defined definition as to what Cadillac is and what Buick is.

[Gagarin]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

XTS:... He said that LaCrosse target is the ES350 type car, while the XTS will offer that type of comfort and quietness, but with a much more upscale type vehicle. I was about to rebut his answer, when he stopped me and said in a few months, we will see exactly what he was talking about. So does that mean an XTS type debut at Detroit 2010? It seems that this car could be in production faster than our next car.

Rebut with what?

[OLDSCHOOLGMFAN]

[quote]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

The XTS isn't going to be anything super.....

Yes it will be. The folks who like the DTS are going to buy it by the truckload, we've been waiting long enough for a new car in this class!

The ATS is probably going to be one of the most important Cadillac's in the history of Cadillac (if they get it right).

Oh please, No it won't. It'll flop just like the Cimmaron, Allante, Catera, BLS, and XLR.

[Pellz]

Hold on now! The XTS sounds interesting. Let's give it some thought on what it can be instead on calling it a FWD based loser. What we do know that it will be offered in AWD. FWD based AWD variants aren't that bad if it done correctly, look at the Audi A8 vehicles. Audi A8 vehicles are proven that fwd based awd cars can be sporty and compete with the likes of Mercedes Benz and BMW and not be completely outclassed. According to MotorTrends June issue, there was a road test of the Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, and the Mercedes Benz S-Class. The BMW came in a far last while the Audi came in a close second to the Merc. Now if the Audi A8, being a fwd based awd can do this and retain prestige, why can't Cadillac?

Now, what do we know about GMs all-wheel drive system? Well I will guess that the XTS will probably use the Haldex system developed by Saab ( I think ). The Haldex XWD system can transmit 100 percent of available torque to either the front or rear wheels. (Sidenote: If I'm not mistaken even Land Rover has a deal with Haldex to be used in it's jeeps for V8 rwd applications.) Any awd car that can make a fwd car feel like a rwd vehicle sounds cool as heck to me, plus it may offer best of both worlds, pertaining to performance and snow safety.

So if you read between the lines, maybe he's saying that the Cadillac XTS, being offered to different driving styles could be... Base with just fwd offering the soft and cushy ride that traditional Cadillac and Buick owners know and love, plus this can help keep the commercial use needed for mass profits like limos and ect. The Awd version can be more tweeked if needed to be in between soft and cushy to more aggressive without being specifically sporty. Or since we know that the Haldex traction can push 100% of power to the rear, there can be room for a sport/performance version much like Audi S8.

I don't know much about cars I just read alot, and I think if the XTS is done correctly, it may be a bulleye target hit mechanically and stylisticly, but let's hope it can match the Lexus LS and BMW 7 Series and MB S-Class in the technical department!

[BigThreeForever]

A very interesting article . . . thank you for posting it.

As a die-hard devotee of real American cars, I personally am greatly looking forward to the XTS. It has been a very long time since we had a new Cadillac "traditional luxury" car. The DTS is nothing more than a facelift of the last DeVille, introduced way back in late 1999, and which I never really liked. The styling just wasn't right. It just didn't work at all for me.

I am amazed at the comment that we will see it in "a few months". I thought the XTS was supposed to enter production in late 2011 and debut as a '13 model.

On the other hand, I also thought that DTS (and Lucerne) ceased production at the end of the '10 model year, leaving a gap of two models years before a new model arrives. Maybe the vehicle hinted at is a concept rather than a production model?

The ATS sunds like a very promising car, and one aimed at a very sizeable market segment. When will we see it, though?

Finally, the next Aveo sounds to be a major departure from the present horrible vehicle. Mr Lutz seems to be very confident that it will whup the competiotion. From zero to hero?

[SimonDavid]

So th XTS mops up the DTS buyers, I'm sure that will be very profitable and makes good business sense. I mean the Escalade is not exactly a hard edged RWD performance sedan. Even Porsche has the Cayenne.

My only question is does CTS now sit on a standalone platform for ever? or do we find out lose Sigma in the next generation?

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

XTS will be bad.

I hope it will be good! GM needs a competitive large Cadillac...

[Darc Requiem]

The XTS still sounds like it should slot above the Lacrosse and be sold as a Buick.

[Quest]

Here we go again, people using Audi as an excuse for a FWD Cadillac. Audi uses a longitudinal engine layout in their cars. This layout is not similar to what the XTS, Acura, Buick, Lexus ES, Lincoln and Ford - Transverse FWD/AWD. Audi uses this drivetrain layout because it is superior layout when using AWD; Quattro is an Audi hallmark. Subaru also uses this layout as it allows for a RWD bias along with better driving dynamics. Longitudinal powertrain layout is the same as RWD. Performance based vehicles that are designed from conception to be AWD also use this layout.

It has been said many times on this board by some of us that a Transverse FWD Cadillac hurts the Brand image of Cadillac. You can’t use a volume Transverse FWD Platform and expect to be competitive in this space. Epsilon is an excellent platform but it doesn’t have what is required to be competitive in the segment that Cadillac is aiming at. Magnetic shocks, AWD and the latest in technological do-dads are akin to putting lipstick on a pig. You can dress it up anyway you want but the DNA doesn’t lie.

It is a waste of resources for GM to use two brands to compete in the same space. The XTS, as envisioned, competes against Buick, Ford, Lincoln and Volvo; this is not the space Cadillac should compete in as it’s Buick’s turf- even GM states this. The only reason why they would want to do this is because it’s cheaper to use a volume transverse fwd platform than to use a Zeta-premium or Sigma II.

It’s either Buick or Cadillac not both if they want the two brands to be in the same space. What would Cadillac be then - a trim level of Buick? Remember the 50’s to 70’s in NA, Opel by Buick (now Buick by Opel), maybe now it should be Cadillac by Buick.

Mr. Twork should be embarrassed by what he said in the article. It is obfuscation at its best as anyone knowledgeable of the segment or industry (car people) would laugh at this.

Talking to Nick Twork, I asked him questions regarding this upcoming vehicle, really trying to find out what Cadillac wants with a car like this. He explained to me that the segment that the XTS will be going into is a very large and profitable market, offering a softer side of driving. He talked about how brands like BMW focus on a certain type of driving style, being aggressive and sporty or comfortable and quiet. He said that Cadillac does not feel it should be secluded to one segment or the other, offering all types of driving styles. The XTS would obviously be in the latter, offering a much softer yet still capable driving vehicle. I had asked him if that in fact is going to draw comparisons to the new Buick LaCrosse, and he quickly dismissed that. He said that LaCrosse target is the ES350 type car, while the XTS will offer that type of comfort and quietness, but with a much more upscale type vehicle. I was about to rebut his answer, when he stopped me and said in a few months, we will see exactly what he was talking about. So does that mean an XTS type debut at Detroit 2010? It seems that this car could be in production faster than our next car.

There is so much wrong with the above statement that it’s not even funny. It almost sets a record for contradictions in a paragraph. However, from a corporate communications person it’s to be expected.

[Rocket 88]

Originally Posted by stevecmh

really interested to see the new Aveo...

Probably not. Lutz also talked up the Cobalt as a game changer. At best it will be class competetive if we are lucky.

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Sooo..... Cadillac continues to cater to 2 vastly different segments of the market. Wonderful.
Brand Bifurcation. Love it. And it all leads to one weaker brand because of multiple foci.

Congratulations GM. You've managed to learn absolutely nothing.

Spin machine.

All this does is lead to Brand Bifurcation. Just the way it is now.

So, there will be a "good Cadillac," which will be RWD vehicles. And there will be a "lesser Cadillac," which will be for FWD vehicles.

Brand Bifurcation. No one know what is what.
Perfect.

I hate to agree, but spot on.

You'd figure with the redundancy of two luxury brands GM wouldn't do this. Bad execution and pretty avoidable.

I think GM is afraid to take the sales hit by keeping Caddy limited to RWD vehicles and tries to offer broader appeal. Still if the product is excellent there is some benefit it not following exactly what BMW does. Cadillac also shouldn't only act as a follower.

[K-1]

With a soft-riding Caddy, they're heading right into Buick's waters.

SRX should have been Rendezvous. XTS should be Lucerne 2.0.

There is no reason for Cadillac to be an everything-to-everyone luxury brand. That works in the non-lux arena with Chevrolet, but they're fooling themselves if they think it'll work for Cadillac, especially with Buick thrown into the mix.