First Mercedes, now Jaguar pulls out of Lutz CTS-V Challenge; Lutz Responds

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by shorod

.... I challenge, no I DARE some of you GMI editors to show up with a G8/GXP and MAKE "Uncle Bob" race the CTS-V against it. If the CTS-V is so much better, what is he afraid of in racing against it?? If the GXP gets beat, so what, its an orphan(thanks to GM).

I don't know why you're going on about this. It isn't up to the GMI editors. If you want to put a GXP G8 up against it, DO IT! And maybe you can challenge him in a Suburban too!

I own a G8. I greatly appreciate it. Compete with a CTS V? I don't think so. But if you think you've got a chance, go right ahead.

[Novak454]

Wow, GM is actually doing something the right way. Way to go Lutz! I'm going out to buy a lotto ticket, anything is possible!!!

[solman98]

OK, I'm confused. You say:

Ray, nice juvenile, but clever, use of the feline wordplay, but one correction on your missive. I said I was concerned that five hot laps without added brake cooling system could compromise the stopping power and thus create a safety concern for your driver. The car can handle it.

Then you say:

Instead, they're afraid the XFR can't handle the strain. Specifically, the brakes. Without better brake cooling, Schorr tells us his folks are concerned the XFR just can't put the necessary laps in without endangering the driver.

So what is it, can the car handle the track or can the driver handle the track.....

Or can neither?

This needs to get into advertising......

[eaton53]

Considering that BMW already did a match with the CTS-V in a Car and Driver special, I'd doubt they would do it again, they don't have much to prove this time around (And the new M5 is out next year!!!). Car and Driver even has extensive video of the match, and they brought out both the automatic and manual versions of the M5.

It does prove something... it's proves they're posers.
This is a way bigger deal than the C&D thing, with multiple media/blogs and all comers called out.

To have an executive personally tell the competition to bring it if you really got it, I'll take you on myself is something that happens... well, never.
Who said MB didn't understand marketing?? He's pounding nails into the coffin of the M5 vs. CTS-V discussion right here.

This like a heavy weight fight in which one of the boxers just runs around the ring trying to make it to the bell!

This is even worse than No Mas. It's like Duran starting to come to the ring, then running away.

[jzchev28]

im sure cady is going to sell some more V's because of this, and at least 1 to jag and 1 to MB to dissect

[skylark68]

So who still is in the running?

[Buick61]

Lutz actually came off magnanimously in his response.

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by CaptainDan

I don't know why you're going on about this. It isn't up to the GMI editors. If you want to put a GXP G8 up against it, DO IT! And maybe you can challenge him in a Suburban too!

I own a G8. I greatly appreciate it. Compete with a CTS V? I don't think so. But if you think you've got a chance, go right ahead.

Thats been exactly my response to the same posters here on GMI over and over again! Im so sick of the 3-4 posters who keep saying "I wanna see a GXP take on the V. That will be a race!" No it wont and for 2 reasons:
1) The V wins hands down. How can a car (GXP) with LESS numbers in EVERY catergory than the V beat that car? Nothing agaisnt the GXP, but, apples to oranges.
2) This challenge is to prove that GM has what it take to take on the REST of the world...the abilty to beat one of its own vehicles is redundant....

[Ambalanche]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Mercedes and Jaguar should stand by their products.

It was already obvious that both would have lost to the CTS-V, as they don't even come close to the HP numbers.

It's strange about the Jaguar, as it is Ring tested. Though, the excessive heat from the differential was noted on the Ring, which causes the computer to override the Traction Control systems and keep it on, which would severely hamper track times.

oh well....
At least the XFR still owns the land speed record at Bonneville....

Wow! Just an "oh well"? If this was Cadillac you'd be all over it saying how bad they suck for building a so-called performance luxury car with an inferior braking system and how bad they suck! Double standard clearly demonstrated. Thanks!

[vette61]

Originally Posted by Xenon

Considering that BMW already did a match with the CTS-V in a Car and Driver special, I'd doubt they would do it again, they don't have much to prove this time around (And the new M5 is out next year!!!). Car and Driver even has extensive video of the match, and they brought out both the automatic and manual versions of the M5.

AND YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT CAR AND DRIVER HAS TO SAY ABOUT CADILLAC,I READ THAT COMPARO AND THE CADY WAS OBVIOUSLY THE BETTER CAR AND THEY STILL FOUND A WAY TO SAY THE BIMMER WAS A BETTER CAR.<YES THEY SAID THE CADY GOT THE VICTORY>YOU KNOW THOSE MAGAZINES ARE PRO FOREIGHN.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by CaptainDan

I don't know why you're going on about this. It isn't up to the GMI editors. If you want to put a GXP G8 up against it, DO IT! And maybe you can challenge him in a Suburban too!

I own a G8. I greatly appreciate it. Compete with a CTS V? I don't think so. But if you think you've got a chance, go right ahead.

My reason should be obvious.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by Buick61

Lutz actually came off magnanimous in his response.

Yes, he did.

Originally Posted by Bob Lutz

I was going to come over and bang their wives too, but have decided ripping their nuts off in public was enough.

[BumbleBee]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

There is no reason why XFR can't do it. Though, I wonder what Mercedes' reason for pulling the E63 was.

And yes... why would a PR guy handle XFR in the first place?

I dunno.

Any Ring tuned car should be able to handle these laps. So yea, there is something else behind this. What it is, I dunno.


Hot brakes? Well, I read somewhere that the diff in the XFR gets really hot after an all out run around the Ring. So hot that the traction control fail safe kicks in and won't disengage, so you can't drift anymore. Which would definitely hamper performance numbers. But if THAT is the case, so what? That's not a good enough reason to pull out.

Anyone who thinks the CTS-V would be out performed by any of these German or British cars is fooling themselves. The numbers alone prove that. And it's the 2nd fastest sedan in the world and the fastest V8 sedan in the world!!
The only car in this class that would be worth running against CTS-V is the RS6 with the V10 BiTurbo.... and a 2011 M5 with the new V8.

mgescuro
Don't you think that Jaguar knew all about this, or should have known, about all of this before accepting the challenge? Why submit an entry when you know your car is not going to be able to compete, let alone win?

From a marketing perspective certainly Lutz, and GM, have come out looking like geniuses while Jaquar, and this idiotic PR person, come out looking like idiots. I just can't believe that they screwed up so bad on this challenge.

Anyway, bravo to Lutz on this VERY intelligent marketing stunt. It certainly worked out in his, and GM's, favour. I will be sure to show this to my brother-in-law who has been slagging the CTS and the CTS-V for quite some time. I guess it helps justify his E350. So sad...note the sarcasm!

[jzchev28]

Originally Posted by Buick61

Lutz actually came off magnanimously in his response.

hey i learned a new word today! i had to look it up though.

• MAGNANIMOUS (adjective)
The adjective MAGNANIMOUS has 2 senses:

1. noble and generous in spirit
2. generous and understanding and tolerant

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by shorod

My reason should be obvious.

A burning desire to be embarrassed in public?