Edmunds: Spied - CTS Coupe

[gmcbob]

Does anyone know if GM intends on keeping the Sigma II platform around after 2012 or so? It appears that they must if they're spending the money to bring out a Wagon and a Coupe, but I"m fearing that they'll make Caddy an all FWD lineup after they come out with the new wave of FWD SUV's in a few years. Anyone have some solid info on that?

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Hi Bravada,

What are safety handles? And what victims are you speaking of?

JLM

JLM,
Far be it for me to jump on his coat tails, but Bravada is indeed correct, with another citing of the the "form" motivated value of the push button doohicky. As I am sure you are aware, many things that have been automated in modern life, do so with the premise of a dual redundancy system. This particualr system, and the opportunity to escape/ rescue from potential fire for instance, can be circumeventing by something as simple (and highly probable in an impact) as an unserviceable battery. It does look good but stands up poorly to practical scrutiny, kind of like Buick port "holes".

There is no denying their aesthetic value however. They just need some emergency release handles (a la aircraft canopies) fitted somewhere.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by makmik

JLM,
Far be it for me to jump on his coat tails, but Bravada is indeed correct, with another citing of the the "form" motivated value of the push button doohicky. As I am sure you are aware, many things that have been automated in modern life, do so with the premise of a dual redundancy system. This particualr system, and the opportunity to escape/ rescue from potential fire for instance, can be circumeventing by something as simple (and highly probable in an impact) as an unserviceable battery. It does look good but stands up poorly to practical scrutiny, kind of like Buick port "holes".

There is no denying their aesthetic value however. They just need some emergency release handles (a la aircraft canopies) fitted somewhere.

Hi makmik,

I understand his thinking here but it really does not hold much logic for me in regard to an auto accident where doors are wedged. First, none of the luxury or exotic sports car door handles are design to withstand the stress to open a wedged door. Second, in that case emergency professionals have the Jaws of Life to enable them to free trapped persons in cars in the event this is required. Third, the Cadillac XLR for example is designed with these doors and there is a mechanical door released designed into the car as well to meet safety and convenience standards.

I do understand the concern here, but in this case the Cadillac engineers have addressed this topic. And owners of Cadillac's XLR are advised during the first instructions of their new cars regarding the operation of the electronic operated doors and trunk, but both can be operated mechanically if required.

In my view, this is one of the most advance and best designed door and trunk access systems available in the luxury and exotic sports car segment I have evaluated. The styling of Aston Martin's DB9/Vantage doors are mechanical, but designed to be flush with the body until required for use. A different approach, but just as clean and beautiful looking as Cadillac's XLR design in my view. But clearly the Cadillac's XLR door and trunk access system is one of the most sophisticated and advanced today compared to any other available production sports car. And the real beauty with Cadillac’s XLR, it operates flawlessly.

JLM

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by Bravada

I was ridiculing this design of door handles - they are the antithesis of safety, imagine trying to open a door of a crushed car with one like that after an accident. Victims - well, accidents do happen, even in Cadillacs.

Hi Bravada,

I understand your concern and Cadillac's engineers addressed this as part of their design of the electronic door and trunk access and security system. There are mechanical releases for both door and trunk access and exit.

JLM

[mikmak]

^^^from the outside?

As for the system being advanced, even the Holden/nee Opel Tigra has a button released and power operated trunk and many other vehicles have a solenoid release. Although on the Tigra, it is a pain in the backside because the trunk is operated via a "dead man" safety system, whereby you have to keep holding the boot button to close it, regardless of prevailing weather conditions.

Allow me to provide a simple example of its downfall:

The CTS Coupe/CTC is t-boned on the right hand side, dislodging the battery and rupturing the fuel tank. If the driver is knocked unconscious, there is no opportunity for bystanders to get him out of the car. How about a battery fault with a child in a locked car? Is there a mechanical release on the outside? How about any cause for the battery to run flat (systematic or human error)? Is there even an old fashioned physical key? (<---these are actual questions by the way. I'm not saying them just to be a pain in the ass )

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by gmcbob

Does anyone know if GM intends on keeping the Sigma II platform around after 2012 or so? It appears that they must if they're spending the money to bring out a Wagon and a Coupe, but I"m fearing that they'll make Caddy an all FWD lineup after they come out with the new wave of FWD SUV's in a few years. Anyone have some solid info on that?

Sigma and Zeta will merge as GM's large RWD program in coming generations. Sigma's SLA front end teamed with Zeta's compact and strong rear multi link IRS will make for one hell of a performance sedan or coupe.
And dont forget about Alpha, GM's upcoming smaller RWD car.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mikmak

^^^from the outside?

As for the system being advanced, even the Holden/nee Opel Tigra has a button released and power operated trunk and many other vehicles have a solenoid release. Although on the Tigra, it is a pain in the backside because the trunk is operated via a "dead man" safety system, whereby you have to keep holding the boot button to close it, regardless of prevailing weather conditions.

Allow me to provide a simple example of its downfall:

The CTS Coupe/CTC is t-boned on the right hand side, dislodging the battery and rupturing the fuel tank. If the driver is knocked unconscious, there is no opportunity for bystanders to get him out of the car. How about a battery fault with a child in a locked car? Is there a mechanical release on the outside? How about any cause for the battery to run flat (systematic or human error)? Is there even an old fashioned physical key? (<---these are actual questions by the way. I'm not saying them just to be a pain in the ass )

mikmak,

In regard to your hypothetical auto accident, I would expect anyone wishing to attempt rescue will be require to break the side window and open the door from the inside. There is a mechanical access and exit for the Cadillac XLR and yes there is a key to access from the exterior.

For Cadillac's XLR like most other GM cars are designed with battery run down protection, which basically shuts down power to conserve battery life even when someone is in the XLR, let’s say playing the DVD player watching a movie. When the system detects enough drain on the battery it will turn off the stereo and post a message in the Driver Information Display to start the engine.

If there is no battery power for whatever reason, one can exit the car by using the door release handle next to each seat. If for some reason your Cadillac XLR battery is dead, one can gain access with a key through a special body panel.

The advance design I was speaking of was Cadillac's XLR systems integration of the doors, windows, trunk, roof, keyless access, keyless start, security, vehicle diagnostics and auto emergency notification. All of these advance features and services require the battery to be operational.

There are many autos that offer solenoid operated doors. However, few automobiles integrate all of the above; in fact I have only found a hand fully featured cars and they are luxury brands. And in the luxury performance roadster segment, Cadillac’s XL R and Mercedes-Benz’s SL are the only models that meet these designs.

JLM

[mikmak]

Cool, thanks. I'm rarely one to promote automation over manual input, but that's just me. On a side note, I find the SL to be a cumbersome design. The XLR (though not my cup of tea) does what any roadster should: digress enough from other body style relatives to create it's own presence. IMO the CTS Coupe has also done the same with respect to its wagon and sedan brethren. I suppose design touches such as the door handle, aid its pursuit.

[PMC the 1st]

For those of you who want to actually look at the spy photo rather than just discuss it...

[Butz]

As is?
Holy!

[jpenn]

It appears obvious that they've done some tinkering with the rear, otherwise they wouldn't have it so covered up. Every spy shot I've seen has the rear quarters well hidden. I have to assume they've lengthened the rear deck thus giving the appearance of a longer, slimmer rear end. All good in my opinion. What puzzles me about the spy photos is that the car seems to be higher off the wheels than the concept and the rear wheels seem to be smaller than the front. I'm hoping that the final production car will be as low as the concept with at least some of the fairings from the concept.

[yello430]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/17/l...lac-cts-coupe/

It's out in the open now .

[jpenn]

Yello430,

Thanks for the reply, but if you're referring to the photo which accompanied that Autoblog article about the Lansing Plant producing the coupe and the wagon, that's a picture of the concept which was released in January 08. I've been searching the internet trying to find an uncamoflaged picture of the production car for months with no success. I've seen reports which state that the coupe will look very much like the concept and heard a Caddy salesman tell me that the coupe will be a two door replica of the sedan (of course we all know that salesmen are the last to pickup on any real news). I'm planning to buy a CTS next year and would like it to be a coupe, but that chunky fastback concept design has me concerned. Worst case scenario, I'll get a sedan, but would prefer a coupe.

[yello430]

Originally Posted by jpenn

Yello430,

Thanks for the reply, but if you're referring to the photo which accompanied that Autoblog article about the Lansing Plant producing the coupe and the wagon, that's a picture of the concept which was released in January 08. I've been searching the internet trying to find an uncamoflaged picture of the production car for months with no success. I've seen reports which state that the coupe will look very much like the concept and heard a Caddy salesman tell me that the coupe will be a two door replica of the sedan (of course we all know that salesmen are the last to pickup on any real news). I'm planning to buy a CTS next year and would like it to be a coupe, but that chunky fastback concept design has me concerned. Worst case scenario, I'll get a sedan, but would prefer a coupe.

Do NOT believe the salesperson .It is NOT a 2door version of the sedan . The coupe is 98% of the showcar i.e. 1" smaller wheels , slightly different rear bumper for crash , b-pillar instead of hardtop/pillarless glass , the sedan front end sheetmetal . The coupe production car will be shown at Pebble Beach the weekend of the Pebble Beach Concours 8/17/08 . If you do like the coupe showcar , there is no reason for you not to like the production version .Wait until you see the actual car before you make up your mind .

[jpenn]

Originally Posted by yello430

Do NOT believe the salesperson .It is NOT a 2door version of the sedan . The coupe is 98% of the showcar i.e. 1" smaller wheels , slightly different rear bumper for crash , b-pillar instead of hardtop/pillarless glass , the sedan front end sheetmetal . The coupe production car will be shown at Pebble Beach the weekend of the Pebble Beach Concours 8/17/08 . If you do like the coupe showcar , there is no reason for you not to like the production version .Wait until you see the actual car before you make up your mind .

Thanks for the update, I'm hoping that your information is based on some kind of insider information. I appreciate knowing that it will be shown at Pebble Beach, I'll definitely be looking for it.

I DO like the concept but have reservations based on the photos from the NAIAS and Chicago shows which make the rear end look chopped off and rather chunky. Also, the spy shots of the production car looks rather high off the wheels as opposed to the concept which is lowered over the wheels. Do you have any information on that?

In any event, you've provided me with some very useful information and I appreciate it. Thanks.