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CTS-V Won’t Get Manual, Hydra-Matic 8L90 8-Speed Auto Possible

9K views 53 replies 34 participants last post by  georgejetson 
#1 ·
2016 Cadillac CTS-V Won’t Get Manual, Hydra-Matic 8L90 8-Speed Auto Possible
by Mircea Panait
24th November 2014

After the BMW M4-rivaling 2016 Cadillac ATS-V got everyone excited at the LA Auto Show, the American luxury manufacturer is going to continue its high performance offensive with the 2016 CTS-V. Slated to debut next year at the Detroit Auto Show, the uber Caddy is going to adopt a supercharged LT4 bruiser.

But then again, the ATS-V got its Z06-grade GM Hydra-Matic 8L90 eight-speed automatic and it wouldn’t be a surprise if the 2016 CTS-V would adopt it as well. The only bad news that needs to be pointed out is that the CTS-V won’t get a good ol’ stick shift box and a clutch pedal. Apparently...

That’s if MotorTrend’s Johnny Lieberman got the right info. He’s the same guy that previously claimed the Porsche 991 facelift will adopt the 992 codename. That was just a smokescreen considering Porsche themselves confirmed the 991 facelift will receive the 991.2 moniker when it will be launched next year.
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#14 · (Edited)
CUE (pun intended) bitching in 3... 2... 1...

No big deal here. Sorry to the 6 people worldwide who were going to buy it with a manual transmission.
There are more of us than you know. The so-called "fact" that people don't want manual transmissions has as a lot to do with a lack of choices. Furthermore, dealers are averse to manual transmissions because they believe that they're harder to sell. Unfortunately, these same dealers are of the old school mentality, believing that only stripped cars should have manuals, and thus, only order them this way, if they're even available at all. In 2014 few people buy a stripped car, so this is a feedback loop which reinforces the overstatement about manuals being dead.

I'm not saying that manuals, if widely available, would be as popular as they were 30-40 years ago, but what I am saying is that they're not as sales proof as the industry would have us believe, either.

I think it is a smart move for GM. Manual transmissions and clutches tend to get abused in performance cars, especially by those that don't know how to properly drive one. The odds are that the few folks who would buy one would not know how to drive one properly since most did not grow up driving a manual (like some of us old folks).
I don't think the level of abuse of a manual is any more widespread than the neglect automatics typically see in terms of fluid/filter changes.

Judging by the other comments here, I'm apparently in the minority.

I think manual sales would've been significant (maybe as much as 15-20%), but I do understand that a supercharged LT4 (DI, VVT, etc) will no doubt be a handful for 98% of the drivers.
I agree. And high performance vehicles typically have a much higher manual take rate than do "normal" cars. And as I recall, the first-gen CTS-V sold pretty darn well, despite the fact that it was manual-only.

Prediction:

Poorly.
If the take rate on the 3-pedal car is less than 30% after the first couple of model years, I'll gladly give up my soap-box rants about lack of manual transmission choices in new automobiles.

My bet is, production will be 60% auto, 40% manual. You know, like the current Corvette.
 
#5 ·
Actually this makes sense most executive luxury car buyers do not want to row their own gears. This will definitely attract some attention but it is for the better. If you want a fast luxury sedan/coupe buy the ATS-V or ATS-V+ when it comes. I suspect the ATS-V + (plus) will debut a year after the CTS-V so quite the whiners who want a v8 stick shift beast of a luxury car.
 
#6 ·
I think it is a smart move for GM. Manual transmissions and clutches tend to get abused in performance cars, especially by those that don't know how to properly drive one. The odds are that the few folks who would buy one would not know how to drive one properly since most did not grow up driving a manual (like some of us old folks).
 
#18 ·
Part of the problem there is due to lack of opportunities to learn/practice. As was mentioned already, the decidedly limited number of choices available make it difficult to find something that is practical, desirable, and affordable. You're either stuck with uber-cheap, no-frills economy cars or often impractical sports cars that can be unaffordable.

If more people had the opportunity to get behind the wheel of a car with a manual transmission you might just see an increased adoption rate.

That said, I would never want a manual transmission in a daily driven vehicle... they can be very frustrating to deal with in stop-and-go or slow moving traffic.
 
#8 ·
Judging by the other comments here, I'm apparently in the minority.

I think manual sales would've been significant (maybe as much as 15-20%), but I do understand that a supercharged LT4 (DI, VVT, etc) will no doubt be a handful for 98% of the drivers.
 
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#11 ·
Disappointing for the "purists" but not surprising.

BMW, I believe, has already stated the current M5 will be the last with a stick-shift and I think Porsche is on the fence about making the next 911 PDK only. Which shouldn't be surprising considering most of the people who are buying these cars don't care about "becoming one with the car".

Caddy fans should enjoy the row-your-own ATS-V while you have it because if the CTS-V does go slushbox only and doesn't suffer in sales, the ATS-V will follow suit.
 
#20 ·
Automatics are usually $800-$1200 over a manual in the US. Interestingly, though, automatics are more and more becoming the standard transmission, and when a manual is offered, it's becoming a no-cost option.
 
#27 ·
If GM is serious about a LT4 equipted ATS then that would be the best chance for us to see a manual.
 
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#33 ·
I love driving a manual but IMO there is no reason any luxury manufacturer should offer them. You want a stick, drive something like. Dodge Challenger. You want to drive a Cadillac, you get a super hi tech slush box.
 
#34 ·
I think there will be sales, not 40%, probably not even 30%, but Caddy can show they care about the enthusiast by just offering it to "The 6 people worldwide" who want one. This is the same company that put a CTS-V Wagon out.... With a manual transmission. Chevy is bringing over a SS with a manual this year, something is telling them that they can sell $48-50k cars with manual transmissions.

I bought one (ok a 09 GXP for $40k) and love it.
 
#36 · (Edited)
It is a Mosaic.

Lots of little pieces coming together.

Really is not just about one or two or three - or four things alone.

One of the big pieces is .... with the world awash with 8HP - TF8 - and hopefully some day the GM 8Lxx Series ......... MTs as currently available just cannot provide the mpgs while typically being a bitch to get thru EM.

Need.... even more than the CATs, a whole new approach - with few to no sprag / cog gears.

Some of which theoretically, could provide both an AT base build and then an optional MT and or a second optional build of both an AT / MT function.


You are however...... talking about more of a - the world is not flat transformation as opposed to say recip piston to turbine which was more than dicey enough ..... initially.
 
#38 ·
I don't shift my car's gears for the same reason I don't load punch cards into my computer or pave my own street. The fact we even have manual transmissions makes absolutely no sense.
 
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#40 ·
The awesome 8L90 kicks the crap out of the manual transmission both in everyday use and on the track....

It's just that technology has moved so far along that the computers in the 8L90 are superior in economy, performance and track use...

Check which corvette z06 is the fastest on the track.....the m7 rev matching or the 8L90?

Which one gets that title from motortrend from GM ?

4]2015 Corvette Z06: GTR Beware! The High Performance Bargain Benchmark is Back! - Ignition Ep. 119 - YouTube



The luxury CTS V deserves the A8 only....no money to be wasted. Gm faithful are lucky the cars coming out at all...650 hp 650 lb/ft of tq or there abouts.....should be insane.....should have AWD....LOL but that's another story for another thread....

Amg e63 and Audi s7 got it right....
 
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#42 · (Edited)
Outside the US / NA, MT take rates are also evolving.

China - and China as prognasticated for the future are the biggest piece in that Mosaic.

MTs just as we know them today never mind future developments, still have a future although it will almost certainly be very different.


Does not cover it all by any means but in certain locations / markets - lower cost, lower powered, lower power / weight ratio groups of products will still press on.


And then some niche groupings amongst the rest - basically unless something changes.

Autonomous Driving is another negative factor.


************


Cadillac has much to do - although I too regret leading with what appears to be an excellent AT with no MT option ...... to start........ this does make excellent business sense given the current situation and need + desires for tightly controlled prioritization.

Getting ( gasser ATs ) up to a better speed comes first, period.
 
#43 ·
Autonomous Driving is another negative factor.

I think it is a positive development. Cadillac needs something like what Tesla showcased. A car that can almost drive itself.

Almost 60 years ago shifting was automated and in the last 5 years braking was automated as well. It is about time the same happened to steering.
 
#53 ·
They'd love to. So would the Corvette guys. But they can't get the $$$ to develop a good one because they don't have the sales volumes, and an off-the-shelf solution from a supplier wouldn't cut it. Whatever they develop internally has to be shared with the trucks to make the money work, so they developed a very fast-shifting slush box instead. It's not a bad solution.
 
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