AN Comment: Cadillac Should Pull Out Of Europe; 07 Sales In 28 Countries Just 3K

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Nice rounding error - we need 6 month versus 6 month or 5 month versus 5 month to know that ratio with accurracy - could be lower or higher..

Ah, here we are with you, the most spectacularly inaccurate and proven wrong writer on the internet concerning Cadillac and Lexus - and the play between the two.

Well, go ahead, because as we all know, AN's purpose here is diversionary fire for the likely fail report coming from Toyota Motor Europe including a bigger fail for Lexus.

Given Lexus'es larger product line up, product/ product sales support, advertising and marketing money and Toyota's attempted influence pedalling - approx. 12,500 for 5 months is a bigger fail than Cadillacs - and btw, want to look at sales trends for both over the last two years - sure hope so - because we're definitely going to do that once Toyota stops delaying the report and gets the numbers out.

Basically, get the fuel economy up for Cadillac - including Diesel - GM will do fine.

No hope for Lexus - without completely new product - is there a bigger FAIL in the world than Lexus HYBRIDS - particularly in Europe ???????

What the hell are you talking about?
In 2006, Lexus launched a dedicated dealership and service base in Europe, resulting in a 76% increase in sales. 2007 sales were flat because Lexus couldn't deliver key product to market in time.

In 2007, 13,000 Lexuses were sold in Russia alone -- a 30% jump over 2006.
In 2007, 4,500 Lexuses were sold in Germany.

Lexus strategy is correct. They are doing what they do best. Instead of mimicking what the Germans do, they stick to what they know and what has defined Lexus as a brand. THey're sticking to their guns.

Since 1990, Toyota's staregy in Europe was the "sell up" to the Lexus. but you had a Corolla parked next to the LS. Not exactly classy. In fact, it's exactly what GM does. AND IT DOESNT WORK!

So Toyota invested in an upgraded dealership experience, similar to the one it created in the US. Now they have 276 dealerships in Europe and Russia, and sell just enough Lexuses to make Lexus Europe PROFITABLE!!!

What GM does is **** around with Cadillac... and ****ing moans and groans about how Europe will be a tough market.... GM HASN'T DONE ANYTHING to rectify the situation!! They continue to bitch and moan and then whine some more when it doesn't go their way. And I'm sick of it.
GM is mismanaged, and their international strategy is a ****ing mess.

At least Toyota saw the problem with their strategy and opened up dedicated Lexus dealerships. GM still hasn't figured out that selling a Chevy or Opel next to a Cadillac DOESN'T WORK. Hell... they use the same strategy in the US. Guess what... IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE US EITHER!!!

Cadillac's goal is 5,000 annual sales in Europe. Lexus is 65,000. You want to put the sales differential on Lexus' larger product lineup? That doesn't work. Cadillac sells 6 models in Europe. Lexus only offers 5. EEEEHHHHHH....TRY AGAIN!

[give_it_all_]

Sad to think that they could only sell 3,000 of them. And my aunt and uncle bought 3 of those. 2 BLS' and 1 CTS and they love them.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

What the hell are you talking about?


In 2007, 13,000 Lexuses were sold in Russia alone -- a 30% jump over 2006.
In 2007, 4,500 Lexuses were sold in Germany.

Since 1990, Toyota's staregy in Europe was the "sell up" to the Lexus. but you had a Corolla parked next to the LS. Not exactly classy. In fact, it's exactly what GM does. AND IT DOESNT WORK!

Cadillac's goal is 5,000 annual sales in Europe.
Lexus is 65,000.

Cadillac sells 6 models in Europe. Lexus only offers 5. EEEEHHHHHH....TRY AGAIN!

Go to their site hybrids are separate models

Fantastic - we while use all that to show how far they've fallen.

Unfortunately due to TME'S timing on what to include when, we have to look at two sets of numbers.

Here is the first.

.


WESTERN EUROPE (EU15 + EFTA Countries)



.......................................MAY2008/MAY2007

.............................%Share ..........Units...... ...Units......... % Chg

............................... '08.... '07 .......'08............ '07............. 08/07

TOYOTA Group... .4.8.... 5.7...... 59,455.. ..76,568...... - 22.4

TOYOTA............... 4.6.... 5.5...... .57,217... .73,591...... - 22.3

LEXUS............ ......0.2....0.2......... 2,238...... 2,977...... - 24.8

************************************************** *************************
YTD is .................

TOYOTA Group...5.3... 5.9... 339,338... 386,577........ -12.2

TOYOTA............ ....5.1... 5.7... 326,746... 370,011....... -11.7

LEXUS ................. 0.2... 0.3......12,592..... 16,566........ -24.0





************************************************** *****

Keep in mind - the market share for Lexus 2008 is overstated by quite a bit.

[Robert Ryan]

European design aesthetics and attention to detail far outstrip Cadillac across the board. GM hasn't learned that with a luxury brand, you need to treat it as a luxury brand. No obvious cut corners. If the detailing at some obscure corner of the car is left alone, people will notice it.

Luxury carmakers in Europe have great showrooms to show off their cars. What does Cadillac have?

GM needs to remember that Cadillac is playing in unfriendly territory. Glaring mistakes and pitfalls seen in their cars, while glossed over in the US, will be torn to shreds in Europe. THe competition is simply on another level.

Thanks, that is the reason so many on the Holden site at GMI think the Cadillac will never work in Australia.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by RCDonner

Where did GM have stand alone stores in Europe ?

When GM 'relaunched' Caddy in Europe after the first generation CTS made it to market, GM had an agreement with Kroymans Corporation of the Netherlands to sell Cadillacs through a separate sales channel. The stores were to be either stand alone Caddy stores or Caddillac/Corvette showrooms.

The strategy fell apart and GM began to dissolve the partnership. They are now abandoning this in favor of shared showrooms, from what I read.

Originally Posted by mgescuro

What the hell are you talking about?
In 2006, Lexus launched a dedicated dealership and service base in Europe, resulting in a 76% increase in sales. 2007 sales were flat because Lexus couldn't deliver key product to market in time.

In 2007, 13,000 Lexuses were sold in Russia alone -- a 30% jump over 2006.
In 2007, 4,500 Lexuses were sold in Germany.

Lexus strategy is correct. They are doing what they do best. Instead of mimicking what the Germans do, they stick to what they know and what has defined Lexus as a brand. THey're sticking to their guns.

Since 1990, Toyota's staregy in Europe was the "sell up" to the Lexus. but you had a Corolla parked next to the LS. Not exactly classy. In fact, it's exactly what GM does. AND IT DOESNT WORK!

So Toyota invested in an upgraded dealership experience, similar to the one it created in the US. Now they have 276 dealerships in Europe and Russia, and sell just enough Lexuses to make Lexus Europe PROFITABLE!!!

What GM does is **** around with Cadillac... and ****ing moans and groans about how Europe will be a tough market.... GM HASN'T DONE ANYTHING to rectify the situation!! They continue to bitch and moan and then whine some more when it doesn't go their way. And I'm sick of it.
GM is mismanaged, and their international strategy is a ****ing mess.

At least Toyota saw the problem with their strategy and opened up dedicated Lexus dealerships. GM still hasn't figured out that selling a Chevy or Opel next to a Cadillac DOESN'T WORK. Hell... they use the same strategy in the US. Guess what... IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE US EITHER!!!

Cadillac's goal is 5,000 annual sales in Europe. Lexus is 65,000. You want to put the sales differential on Lexus' larger product lineup? That doesn't work. Cadillac sells 6 models in Europe. Lexus only offers 5. EEEEHHHHHH....TRY AGAIN!

You make many good points here Marc.

I think that sharing showrooms between Caddy and Chevy doesn't work either - in Europe or the US market.

The same can be said of the "idea" that Lincolns will eventually be sold in the same showrooms with Ford branded cars if Mercury should wither and die.

Having an upscale image must be maintained and nutured. I'm not advocating stand alone Caddy showrooms (thought that would be nice), but certainly NOT pairing Caddy with non-luxury brands. Caddy-Saab works. But Caddy-Chevy/Caddy-BPG showrooms? No.

This is the same reasoning that will ensure that Chrysler is never considered as a "true" luxury marque again. As Chrysler moves to consolidate all it's showrooms under one roof, it will be hard to give customers a "premium" experience when purchasing a Chrysler car as you are selling Dodge or Jeep only a few feet away. I'm not knocking Chrysler's strategy, but merely pointing out that it is much more difficult to reverse the image here. However, Chrysler may not have any delusions of over-gradeur for the Chrysler brand, so perhaps this isn't even an issueu for them.

Just my two cents...

[HVM]

Originally Posted by Buick61

What costs? I doubt there are any stand alone Cadillac dealerships anywhere on that Continent. Most are joined with Corvette and Hummer.

Here's a shot of a Cadillac dealer that I took while Honeymooning in Paris:



They're grouped with Chevy (though I only saw Cadillacs in the building).

I'm sure there is only minimal costs tied up with selling Cadillacs in Europe, and most of those are probably brochures and spare parts.

This was probably Cadillac - Chevy USA dealership, where they sold Tahoes and Chevy Alero´s (Yes, Oldsmobile Alero), not korean products.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Thanks, that is the reason so many on the Holden site at GMI think the Cadillac will never work in Australia.

I believe it.
And the ONLY exposure I've had to Australian cars are GTO and the G8.

I sat in the GTO once and thought, "Why the hell can't American cars look and feel this way on a regular basis?"

I would like to think that Cadillac will do well in Australia. But I still think Cadillac can stand for a few more upgrades with better choices for design aesthetics that are more inline with Cadillac heritage, style, and class. For example... let's get rid of the plastichrome in the IP cluster.

[AMERICA 123]

Here is the second.

Biggest - Fullest - definition of European Market.

.............................P r e s s R e l e a s e
PROVISIONAL
May

January to May
NEW PASSENGER CAR REGISTRATIONS BY MANUFACTURER

TOTAL EUROPE (EU* + EFTA Countries)

.................................................. .MAY.........................../...........................JAN - MAY YTD.......................

........................%Share.......Units........ ..Units.....% Chg.........%Share........Units...........Units... .....% Chg
.......................'08....'07......'08........ .....'07..........08/07.......'08...'07.........'08..............'07... ........08/07
TOYOTA Group 4.9...5.8......65,793.......83,967......-21.6.........5.4...6.1......375,872......423,401.. ....-11.2
TOYOTA.......... 4.7...5.6......63,327.......80,693......-21.5.........5.2...5.8......362,087......405,487.. ....-10.7
LEXUS.............0.2...0.2........2,466........3, 274......-24.7.........0.2...0.3......13,785.......17,914......-23.0

************************************************** *************************************

Keep in mind market share is highly overstated for Lexus.

************************************************** *************************************

In light of both sets of numbers above - your post's numbers don't seem to make sense - oh wait, that's right, they stopped selling Lexuses in the last 3-4 months of '07 - so they could be good - sure shows how bad they're falling apart over there , doesn't..

What the hell are you talking about?
In 2006, Lexus launched a dedicated dealership and service base in Europe, resulting in a 76% increase in sales. 2007 sales were flat because Lexus couldn't deliver key product to market in time.

In 2007, 13,000 Lexuses were sold in Russia alone -- a 30% jump over 2006.
In 2007, 4,500 Lexuses were sold in Germany.

Lexus strategy is correct. They are doing what they do best. Instead of mimicking what the Germans do, they stick to what they know and what has defined Lexus as a brand. THey're sticking to their guns.

Since 1990, Toyota's staregy in Europe was the "sell up" to the Lexus. but you had a Corolla parked next to the LS. Not exactly classy. In fact, it's exactly what GM does. AND IT DOESNT WORK!

So Toyota invested in an upgraded dealership experience, similar to the one it created in the US. Now they have 276 dealerships in Europe and Russia, and sell just enough Lexuses to make Lexus Europe PROFITABLE!!!

What GM does is **** around with Cadillac... and ****ing moans and groans about how Europe will be a tough market.... GM HASN'T DONE ANYTHING to rectify the situation!! They continue to bitch and moan and then whine some more when it doesn't go their way. And I'm sick of it.
GM is mismanaged, and their international strategy is a ****ing mess.

At least Toyota saw the problem with their strategy and opened up dedicated Lexus dealerships. GM still hasn't figured out that selling a Chevy or Opel next to a Cadillac DOESN'T WORK. Hell... they use the same strategy in the US. Guess what... IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE US EITHER!!!

Cadillac's goal is 5,000 annual sales in Europe. Lexus is 65,000. You want to put the sales differential on Lexus' larger product lineup? That doesn't work. Cadillac sells 6 models in Europe. Lexus only offers 5.

Since your numbers are so revealing of their FAIL,........ - perhaps your comments were meant in regards to Lexus - that would seem to make more sense.

Tell me, do you think TME will fire and move everyone around again - and if so, before the end of the year ?????

They did just recently move Mr. Toyoda ( no ms ) onto the board there - makes you wonder.
__________________

[RCDonner]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

When GM 'relaunched' Caddy in Europe after the first generation CTS made it to market, GM had an agreement with Kroymans Corporation of the Netherlands to sell Cadillacs through a separate sales channel. The stores were to be either stand alone Caddy stores or Caddillac/Corvette showrooms.

The strategy fell apart and GM began to dissolve the partnership. They are now abandoning this in favor of shared showrooms, from what I read.

Are you sure with that. As far as I know Kroymans still is the importer of Cadillac, Corvette and Hummer for Europe as they stated on their Website ( http://www.kroymanscorporation.com/interface.htm ).

[FBODYRULES]

its early days, keep on I say

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Since your numbers are so revealing of their FAIL,........ - perhaps your comments were meant in regards to Lexus - that would seem to make more sense.

Tell me, do you think TME will fire and move everyone around again - and if so, before the end of the year ?????

They did just recently move Mr. Toyoda ( no ms ) onto the board there - makes you wonder.

I don't see a problem with Lexus' strategy in Europe.

1) Define the brand
2) Establish a prominent, independent dealership base to distinguish it from Toyota.
3) Increase sales to 65,000 by 2010.
4) Establish profitability.

Right now, they're on track on all 4, with less models.

The difference is the dedication to actually making an impact in Europe versus GM's "well... we'll see how it goes" routine.

[BBDOS CV8]

This 11/2007 review tells you all you need to know:

Many car manufacturers would give their eye teeth for an easily recognised brand, but sometimes your name can have negative connotations. Cadillac is just such a brand. Mention the name to any car enthusiast and they will tell you that the company has never produced anything particularly relevant to British drivers.

Think back to the last time you saw a Cadillac on British roads. Youll be excused if you cant think of a single occasion because (since 2004) only 700 were shifted from dealerships in that time, which means that each car has around 357 miles of UK road before it chances upon another. Despite massive promotional spends, Cadillac has never really had the right mix of products to appeal to British motorists and the tiny dealer network hasnt helped in this regard either.

Two petrol engines are offered to British buyers. The entry-level unit is a 2.8-litre V6, good for 208bhp but the more satisfying option is the 306bhp 3.6-litre V6.

Both powerplants can be teamed with either a six-speed manual, which really doesnt suit the nature of the car, or an automatic which does. In 2009 there is talk of a diesel being slipped into the line up and the lack of an oil burner from launch will dent the CTSs chances.

Yes, there are some scratchier finishes than youd expect to chance upon in an Ingolstadt product but its attractively styled and has much more of a personality than the reheated Saab innards that its little brother, the BLS, serves up.

An indicator of how far it has to go in terms of efficiency and engineering comes when comparing the CTSs 3.6-litre engine to the powerplant found under the bonnet of BMWs 530i.

Both engines will get the cars to 60mph in 6.3 seconds and on to a top speed of 155mph, but due to having 183kg less to haul about, the BMW does it with 268bhp where the Cadillac needs 306bhp. This translates into fuel economy figures of 36.7mpg for the car from Munich and 23,5mpg for the Caddy.

Emissions? 182g/km for the BMW and 285 for the CTS. That would be forgivable if the CTS were a markedly bigger car but open the boots and theres 520 litres of room in the 5 Series and 373 litres of bag space in the Cadillac.

The CTS is the very best weapon in the portfolio of Cadillac products and it remains a little off the pace of the best of its German rivals. Thats not to say its set to continue Cadillacs run of dismal sales. What the big Caddy has in spades is likeability and that goes a very long way. It feels an honest product and looks great inside and out

And overall this was a very positive review.But it damned the car with faint praise. 'Honest and Likable' is not 'hot'.

• As dear as a 5-series BMW or Merc
• Uses a lot more fuel
• Less utility (smaller boot, so-so appointments)
• No diesel - death in the continent where more than half new sales are oilers.
• Materials issues
• Emits a lot more - Euros are taxed annually for registration on Co2 emissions
• Small dealer network
• Questionable resale

No good moaning about the price in Europe, as the US has tariffs on imports, so do EU. GM made the CTS compete with the 3-series, there it's playing against the bigger brothers.

That plain fact is, Cadillac is a brand taylor made for the US - including the CTS. It stands out like dogs balls to anyone else on the planet. Everything from the styling to the non-standard labelling with strange acronyms on the controls. Most new cars sold in Europe are 3-sized or smaller and fours, mostly diesels. To think you're going to sell shiploads of large petrol sedans there is fanciful. Cadillac is competing in a smallish pool of potential executive sales against more than competent competitors who are strongly established. Things like the Escalade, STS or XLV are irrelevant to Euros, 0.00000001% of who could afford to buy and run one, let alone have the space to park it.

Cadillac's best chances of future international success are to build a range of models which dominate the market in the US - not the 'fish in a barrel' market of oversize SUVs, but beat the pants off import luxury cars of the same size and spec. ATM that is not the case. The CTS appears to sell on Caddy's sales pitch of 'almost as good as a 3-series but more car for less dollars'.

The time to be exporting is when your cars are flying off the lots for top dollar, and walking over the competition in sales. If US citizens don't eat their own dogfood, why should anyone else on the planet?

[Bravada]

Before you start reading - let me remind you that, unlike most people who posted above, I actually DO live in Europe...

The problem with Cadillac is that they don't offer what people would go to them for. In Europe, the CTSs - both the original and the new one - were big news for auto journalists only, as they meant big advertorial deals. Most of the populace think of Cadillac as a large luxo barge, tailfinned or not, but certainly not of a "sports sedan" in the mold of BMW.

If one wants a compact executive (i.e. reasonably-sized, reasonably-priced sports sedan) in Europe, one goes and buys a 3er (in fact, more Europeans do that anually than buy a Passat, Mondeo or Vectra). On second thoughts, one might consider the Audi, or Mercedes (takes a blind man, but still apprently they are permitted to drive).

If you really really really really don't want to go German, you go get an Alfa Romeo. If Alfa Romeo is not to your tastes for some reason, there is the Saab (though recently, this choice is becoming rather desperate).

There is little to convince anybody to pass so many "obvious" choices in favor of an unknown quality from a brand associated with something totally different. It would raise quite a few eyebrows if anybody asked for a sports coupe from GMC - and perhaps same goes for small sports sedans from Cadillac in Europe, except that hardly anybody cares.

There is still a market, even in those uncertain times, for large, comfortable and brash, though. While it takes a desperate fleet manager to treat many European roads to just a taste of the BLS, the Chrysler 300C is a fairly common sight, despite the bulk, price and fuel consumption. Go ask for a more refined and luxurious American sedan from Cadillac, and the best they can answer you with is the STS, which is disappointing in more ways than you can think.

Cadillac can of course succeed, to a limited extent, in Europe. And I believe if Lexus can move into the dozens-of-thousands territory, so can Cadillac. But they need to have the RIGHT PRODUCT, and small cars just aren't that.

[RedVee8]

^^^ A bit the same for Australia. It would make more sense to start with the biggest & most expensive offerings and work down to the CTS, BLS & ATS later. However the non CTS offerings arent rated as good enough by GM.
The big expensive iron, if good enough, may also give enough profit to justify Cadillac China style dealerships.

[aldw]

It would have made sense to make an S-class fighter right after the CTS, as something in that class would be large and cushy enough to satisfy traditional buyers yet be dynamic and sophisticated enough for global markets.