AN Comment: Cadillac Should Pull Out Of Europe; 07 Sales In 28 Countries Just 3K

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by Bravada

Go ask for a more refined and luxurious American sedan from Cadillac, and the best they can answer you with is the STS, which is disappointing in more ways than you can think.

Out of curiousitty, how exactly is the STS such a failure there? I know it's certainly a flop here.

Originally Posted by Bravada

Cadillac can of course succeed, to a limited extent, in Europe. And I believe if Lexus can move into the dozens-of-thousands territory, so can Cadillac. But they need to have the RIGHT PRODUCT, and small cars just aren't that.

What products does Lexus offer in Europe that are so much more "RIGHT" than Cadillac?

[baloo]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

This is a knee-jerk reaction by a bunch of journalist bozos who do not want Cadillac to succeed in Europe. Funny how they never provided this sort of "advice" when Cadillac had really bad product.

You're seriously delusional if you think that Europeans are scared of Cadillac, because it's not even a blip on the radar. Just to put things into perspective, BMW sells around 75,000 cars per month in Europe while Caddy is at 250.

The problem is quite simple, there's simply no good reason to buy a a Cadillac. If you're an unproven brand with a spotty dealer network, no prestige and an uncertain future, you have to give buyers a VERY good reason to take the gamble and buy your product, especially if you're asking them to part with $50k or so. Caddy simply has no such arguments.

What Cadillac would need to succeed are world-beating products (not just one or two that can mostly hold their own), a model for younger buyers that are more likely to experiment, a massive investment into the dealer network, massive marketing and lots of patience. I have my doubts about GM's willingness and ability to invest that much in Cadillac Europe, but it's obvious that they aren't going anywhere with the current approach.

[Robert Ryan]

What products does Lexus offer in Europe that are so much more "RIGHT" than Cadillac?

Well "RIGHT" Hand Drive for starters in England, cars that are actually luxurious unlike the Saab based BLS.

Out of curiousitty, how exactly is the STS such a failure there? I know it's certainly a flop here.

Add the problems about lack of recognition and lack of dealer networks, then add the problems the STS has had in the US and you have your answer.

[t-rex]

While I applaud GM's confidence in believing in could succeed in Europe, it failed miserably in accounting for European taste.

Bravada's right though. Cadillac's only hope in Europe is selling small-volume glitzy luxobarges, since there's no other company (Chrysler excepted) selling cars like that in Europe. And if that's going to be the case, let private importers bother selling them instead of setting up a GM sales operation.

Trying to mimic European sensibilities with an American car is a set-up for failure. Imagine a BMW with tailfins. Or a Mercedes with a pillowy split-bench seat. Picture an Audi, arguably the world's leader in interior ergonomics, with one of GM's infamous Little Tykes dashboards. Okay we all know Caddy and Lincoln have gone well past the fender-skirts and coach-lights era, but they're still brash, quintessentially American designs.

Cadillac will always have a "Teddy Boy" Elvis-and-tailfins image in Europeans' minds. It has nothing to do with how good the CTS or any other Caddy is. They simply don't appeal to Europeans. It's as simple as that.

Fiat haven't been able to sell Lancias outside of Italy for fifteen years now. ASEAN customers won't go near a Lexus because to buyers there, luxury is a strictly European thing, and something Japanese just won't cut it. It's all but impossible to sell a Spaniard or Argentinian a Japanese car. The new crop of Alfas are brilliant, but I doubt highly that many Americans (other than me or nadepalma) will be lining up to buy one. The Japanese don't want ANYBODY else's cars except BMW, Benz, and Mini.

Simply put, different people around the world shy away from certain types of cars, and it's only a few cars that are successful global, namely the German luxo-marques.

If GM are serious about exporting Cadillac, they need to not waste time in places like Europe and Australia. Focus on markets like Russia, China, or maybe Korea and Singapore, where Caddy's brash styling and ostentatious image may find more welcome buyers.

[johnstarnes]

If wonder if the upcoming Caddy wagon might sell well there?

[aldw]

Originally Posted by t-rex

While I applaud GM's confidence in believing in could succeed in Europe, it failed miserably in accounting for European taste.

Bravada's right though. Cadillac's only hope in Europe is selling small-volume glitzy luxobarges, since there's no other company (Chrysler excepted) selling cars like that in Europe. And if that's going to be the case, let private importers bother selling them instead of setting up a GM sales operation.

Trying to mimic European sensibilities with an American car is a set-up for failure. Imagine a BMW with tailfins. Or a Mercedes with a pillowy split-bench seat. Picture an Audi, arguably the world's leader in interior ergonomics, with one of GM's infamous Little Tykes dashboards. Okay we all know Caddy and Lincoln have gone well past the fender-skirts and coach-lights era, but they're still brash, quintessentially American designs.

Cadillac will always have a "Teddy Boy" Elvis-and-tailfins image in Europeans' minds. It has nothing to do with how good the CTS or any other Caddy is. They simply don't appeal to Europeans. It's as simple as that.

Fiat haven't been able to sell Lancias outside of Italy for fifteen years now. ASEAN customers won't go near a Lexus because to buyers there, luxury is a strictly European thing, and something Japanese just won't cut it. It's all but impossible to sell a Spaniard or Argentinian a Japanese car. The new crop of Alfas are brilliant, but I doubt highly that many Americans (other than me or nadepalma) will be lining up to buy one. The Japanese don't want ANYBODY else's cars except BMW, Benz, and Mini.

Simply put, different people around the world shy away from certain types of cars, and it's only a few cars that are successful global, namely the German luxo-marques.

If GM are serious about exporting Cadillac, they need to not waste time in places like Europe and Australia. Focus on markets like Russia, China, or maybe Korea and Singapore, where Caddy's brash styling and ostentatious image may find more welcome buyers.

Are you implying that for an American Luxury brand to succeed in Europe that it would need to be something like Packard, Pierce-Arrow or Duesenberg then?

[Robert Ryan]

Are you implying that for an American Luxury brand to succeed in Europe that it would need to be something like Packard, Pierce-Arrow or Duesenberg then?

Getting close, with the same quality and exclusivity of that era.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Getting close, with the same quality and exclusivity of that era.

The thing is that the Cadillacs of that era were as good as any of those brands (with the possible exception of Duesenberg); Cadillac needs to leverage the mystique of the vehicles of that era to modern vehicles, to effectively deal with both the small/medium/large setup of the German luxury manufacturers and the higher end Bentley and Rolls-Royce vehicles. This can be done, but GM needs to be as emphatic as Harley-Davidson or Boeing in developing and promoting their products.

[t-rex]

Originally Posted by aldw

Are you implying that for an American Luxury brand to succeed in Europe that it would need to be something like Packard, Pierce-Arrow or Duesenberg then?

Yeah something like that!

[Robert Ryan]

This can be done, but GM needs to be as emphatic as Harley-Davidson or Boeing in developing and promoting their products.

They have a huge job in front of them. Not aided by the fact that they have no distrubutiion outlets, No RHD, little or negative recognition and the Companies they are competing against unlike the car companies of the 1930's (mainly boutique outfits)are very wealthy multinationals.

[k888usa]

Cadiilac in the Uk have all the right products and most in RHD but no diesel in any cars apart from the BLS and a complete lack of dealer network!
I have a CTS and love it but this was the same 8 years ago with the STS the used prices droped sos hard so quick everyone was put off buying them.
The new CTS has been priced at starting price of £26.995 but no diesel for another year!
Great car customers come in find out you can only buy petrol and walk over and buy and Audi,BMW, Merc.
They need a lot more showrooms and to put adverts on TV/radio
Cadillac/Corvette/Hummer all are sold here but only in 5 dealers in the UK!
How will you ever get big sales numbers??

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by t-rex

While I applaud GM's confidence in believing in could succeed in Europe, it failed miserably in accounting for European taste.

Bravada's right though. Cadillac's only hope in Europe is selling small-volume glitzy luxobarges, since there's no other company (Chrysler excepted) selling cars like that in Europe. And if that's going to be the case, let private importers bother selling them instead of setting up a GM sales operation.

Trying to mimic European sensibilities with an American car is a set-up for failure. Imagine a BMW with tailfins. Or a Mercedes with a pillowy split-bench seat. Picture an Audi, arguably the world's leader in interior ergonomics, with one of GM's infamous Little Tykes dashboards. Okay we all know Caddy and Lincoln have gone well past the fender-skirts and coach-lights era, but they're still brash, quintessentially American designs.

Cadillac will always have a "Teddy Boy" Elvis-and-tailfins image in Europeans' minds. It has nothing to do with how good the CTS or any other Caddy is. They simply don't appeal to Europeans. It's as simple as that.

Fiat haven't been able to sell Lancias outside of Italy for fifteen years now. ASEAN customers won't go near a Lexus because to buyers there, luxury is a strictly European thing, and something Japanese just won't cut it. It's all but impossible to sell a Spaniard or Argentinian a Japanese car. The new crop of Alfas are brilliant, but I doubt highly that many Americans (other than me or nadepalma) will be lining up to buy one. The Japanese don't want ANYBODY else's cars except BMW, Benz, and Mini.

Simply put, different people around the world shy away from certain types of cars, and it's only a few cars that are successful global, namely the German luxo-marques.

If GM are serious about exporting Cadillac, they need to not waste time in places like Europe and Australia. Focus on markets like Russia, China, or maybe Korea and Singapore, where Caddy's brash styling and ostentatious image may find more welcome buyers.

Agreed 100%. This is the reason why I won't ever buy a Cadillac. In my mind, a Cadillac is either a 1976 Coupe De Ville at a local car show, or a 1998 Deville going 55mph in the left lane on I95 South, left blinker on, hauling Uncle Ernie and Aunt Bertha from Queens to Boca. No matter how good the new models are, I can't get that bitter taste out of my mouth.

To be fair, I don't view Mercedes-Benz or Lexus as much better. They're all old man cars. Lincoln is somewhat less distasteful, since they've been my executive business shuttle for years now.

Now, just because I don't like them, doesn't mean the Russians or Chinese won't. I've done a lot of business with folks from China, Russia, India, South America, and Africa, and often we'll talk cars over lunch or dinner. Believe me... the more obnoxious the car, the more they love it. They all want modern versions of a '68 Deville... huge, covered in chrome, and able to absorb all the potholes in their roads with no fuss.

[Exploder]

Agreed 100%. This is the reason why I won't ever buy a Cadillac. In my mind, a Cadillac is either a 1976 Coupe De Ville at a local car show, or a 1998 Deville going 55mph in the left lane on I95 South, left blinker on, hauling Uncle Ernie and Aunt Bertha from Queens to Boca. No matter how good the new models are, I can't get that bitter taste out of my mouth.

If that's how people view GM cars in general then GM is doomed.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by t-rex

While I applaud GM's confidence in believing in could succeed in Europe, it failed miserably in accounting for European taste.

Bravada's right though. Cadillac's only hope in Europe is selling small-volume glitzy luxobarges, since there's no other company (Chrysler excepted) selling cars like that in Europe. And if that's going to be the case, let private importers bother selling them instead of setting up a GM sales operation.

I disagree.
Cadillac needs to stick to what it is. Luxo barges, though that is what Cadillac is known for, will not sell in Europe because they are luxo barges. Who'd want it?

Cadillac needs to build a competent American luxury car, that not only distinguishes itself as American, but has the luxury AND technology to compete with the European marques.

The key is to offer an alternative to a European marque while not compromising on the key details that Europeans enjoy. Why would a European want to buy an American luxury car, if it is seen as a step down? Might as well buy a domestic, right?

The problem is, Cadillac has no focus. Cadillac's best attempt isn't nearly good enough to compete with the Europeans. It lacks design aethetics, has less room, has less technology, has inferior materials, has horrible ergonomics, poor build quality, and doesn't have the features available to the Europeans.

The reason why Cadillac doesn't do well in Europe is exacerbated by the fact that they still make second rate luxury cars!!!

Cadillac simply needs to do better than attempting to sell a Chevy with leather and putting a wreath and crest on it.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I disagree.
Cadillac needs to stick to what it is. Luxo barges, though that is what Cadillac is known for, will not sell in Europe because they are luxo barges. Who'd want it?

Cadillac needs to build a competent American luxury car, that not only distinguishes itself as American, but has the luxury AND technology to compete with the European marques.

The key is to offer an alternative to a European marque while not compromising on the key details that Europeans enjoy. Why would a European want to buy an American luxury car, if it is seen as a step down? Might as well buy a domestic, right?

The problem is, Cadillac has no focus. Cadillac's best attempt isn't nearly good enough to compete with the Europeans. It lacks design aethetics, has less room, has less technology, has inferior materials, has horrible ergonomics, poor build quality, and doesn't have the features available to the Europeans.

The reason why Cadillac doesn't do well in Europe is exacerbated by the fact that they still make second rate luxury cars!!!

Cadillac simply needs to do better than attempting to sell a Chevy with leather and putting a wreath and crest on it.

Western Europeans want small, high quality wagons with diesels. Cadillac's image is of large, low quality sedans with huge V8 engines. Hence, the problem. Their image is the precise opposite of the taste of Western Europeans.

This problem is made ten times worse by the fact they're sold alongside Chevrolets.

To overcome this problem, Cadillac would need to spend money to bring their cars up to MB/BMW spec (which they have failed thus far), create a stand-alone dealer network, AND launch a massive marketing campaign to change their image. GM does not have the money for this.

My solution goes back to my sales channel re-organization. Establish an international Cadillac-Buick sales channel in the US, Russia, China, Africa, India, the Middle East, and South America. Buick will sell the Lexus-style soft luxury models, and Cadillac will sell the hard-edged sporty luxury models. Ensure that wagons and diesels are well-stocked, and ensure that both Buick and Cadillac have a big and chromed-out model for the local politicians and business owners to flaunt.

Forget Western Europe... it's a money pit with no benefit whatsoever to the brand.