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Thread: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    I've read that the cost of carbon fiber is falling....I wonder if it will be prominent in the next CTS and the flagship (Ciel?)?
    At NAIAS Reuss said there are zero plans to do the Ciel....that it would be WAY to expensive.

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    So where is NSAP who just a couple months ago was talking about his inside information that thsi car was going to be a pig! He stated it was going to be very heavy bacause of Cadillac! I'd like to know if he was fed misinformation to fire us up. If that's the case, who can we trust? Is GM, or the insiders that GMI looks too, looking to fool us? I don't believe NSAP intentionally gave us false information, but I do believe he needs to take what he is told with a grain of salt after the ATS debut. he did tell us Caddy had made this car very heavy, so what gives? Who gave that infor? It all needs some investigation?
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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambalanche View Post
    So where is NSAP who just a couple months ago was talking about his inside information that thsi car was going to be a pig! He stated it was going to be very heavy bacause of Cadillac! I'd like to know if he was fed misinformation to fire us up. If that's the case, who can we trust? Is GM, or the insiders that GMI looks too, looking to fool us? I don't believe NSAP intentionally gave us false information, but I do believe he needs to take what he is told with a grain of salt after the ATS debut. he did tell us Caddy had made this car very heavy, so what gives? Who gave that infor? It all needs some investigation?
    I can chime in here, Nick I'm sure, can speak for himself. During Alpha's on/off/on again development, it had started to gain weight. Every source was reporting that Alpha had subtantially exceeded it weight target. We were also told that an all-out program was underway, to get Alpha back down to it's fighting weight. One of the reasons I was told that the ATS convertible program was put on hold, was to redirect those engineering resources toward mass control.

    We knew a serious effort was underway to drop mass, we just didn't know where they'd end up. I had heard that "heads would roll" if the ATS didn't come in under 3500 pounds. It looks like they beat that by 100 or so pounds. Great job. I've also been told that just as serious a mass control effort will be expended on the 6th gen Camaro.
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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambalanche View Post
    So where is NSAP who just a couple months ago was talking about his inside information that thsi car was going to be a pig! He stated it was going to be very heavy bacause of Cadillac! I'd like to know if he was fed misinformation to fire us up. If that's the case, who can we trust? Is GM, or the insiders that GMI looks too, looking to fool us? I don't believe NSAP intentionally gave us false information, but I do believe he needs to take what he is told with a grain of salt after the ATS debut. he did tell us Caddy had made this car very heavy, so what gives? Who gave that infor? It all needs some investigation?
    If I recall correctly, Nick was describing the fight within Cadillac to fatten the pig and the resistance within, I think Mark Reuss alluded to it during the reveal (as the temptation to make it bigger)

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by CTS-V-TWIN View Post
    Whatever it takes for GM's vehicles to lose weight! I am all for it!

    Let's hope the next gen CTS follows the same formula because they weigh too much as it is!
    I feel like that the next CTS if it comes in at 3,500 to 3,600 pounds it will have the potential to destroy the BMW 5 series.

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by ral1960 View Post
    Anyone know what that means?
    Lay a piece of paper on a table. Keeping it flat on the table, with one hand along one side and one on the other, try to move your hands - it's sheer strength that keeps you from stretching the paper.

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    If I recall correctly, Nick was describing the fight within Cadillac to fatten the pig and the resistance within, I think Mark Reuss alluded to it during the reveal (as the temptation to make it bigger)
    I also remember that, and the story that I took from it and later ones released recently is that the ATS had turned into a pig. However it went on a diet program to bring its weight to under 3,400 pounds. From reports the car was going to be something like 3,600 to 3,800 pounds so if that is true then they managed to take off 200-400+ pounds from the vehicle before production which is impressive.

    This brings up 2 things that I have come to accept about the huge weight increase of automobiles from manufacturers (which is seemingly over). The first reason for weight gain (and biggest for most automakers) is the increase in size of every new generation of the same car. For example the 2012 BMW 5 series is bigger then the 1991 BMW 7 series and yet it still manages to come off lighter then the 7 series. Though its much heavier then the 1991 BMW 5 series (and people make the understandable mistake of comparing it in that regard to the 1991 5 series). The other which was also pointed out by a MIT professor comes down to fuel economy, over the period of time (and greater) of the 1991 BMW 5 series and the engineering work into the current 5 series that was a lack of incentive to improve fuel economy. CAFE requirements were not going up any and especially during the 1990s fuel prices were very low in the US (I remember prices that were often $0.87 a gallon for 87 octane in California).

    Now that there is a big move to move the US off of middle eastern oil, off set global warming, higher fuel prices, and stricter regulations auto makers have incentives to improve fuel economy. As a result we are entering an era of better engineered vehicles in order to solve the problem of making a vehicle safer and lighter at the same time. Increase technology as far as the mechanical aspects of vehicles (direct injection, automated manuals in place of automatics, 8 speeds and more) as well as alternative power sources (electric, increase in diesels, fuel cell, renewable fuel sources).

    I can picture an automotive future where most vehicles (90-95%) will be electric(hydrogen fuel cell falls in this group) and the rest being premium or performance vehicles running off things like Ethanol.

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by goatgary View Post
    At NAIAS Reuss said there are zero plans to do the Ciel....that it would be WAY to expensive.
    Well that sucks....joins the Voyage, Solitaire, Sixteen and Cien as stunning, accolades-generating Cadillac concepts NOT built.

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    Thumbs up Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by megeebee View Post
    I agree, and I think Cadillac will do just this.
    The next CTS "is" better than the ATS, in every way.

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by YEH View Post
    Doing this costs $$ - so it'll definitely be interesting to see where the MSRP for the ATS begins.

    I hope GM has the next gen CTS on a fast-track development schedule; just be no more than a year and a half or so after the ATS hits the lots.
    It's close to the current CTS in pricing, and the next CTS will be out in less than a year and a half.

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001 View Post
    I feel like that the next CTS if it comes in at 3,500 to 3,600 pounds it will have the potential to destroy the BMW 5 series.
    The goal is for it to be lighter than the 5 series. How much lighter? I don't know.

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by goatgary View Post
    At NAIAS Reuss said there are zero plans to do the Ciel....that it would be WAY to expensive.
    I dunno, I've read (mostly here) some minor rumblings about Omega. Either way, while I'd never be able to afford one, it'd made me sad if they didn't build the Ciel.

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001 View Post
    I also remember that, and the story that I took from it and later ones released recently is that the ATS had turned into a pig. However it went on a diet program to bring its weight to under 3,400 pounds. From reports the car was going to be something like 3,600 to 3,800 pounds so if that is true then they managed to take off 200-400+ pounds from the vehicle before production which is impressive.

    This brings up 2 things that I have come to accept about the huge weight increase of automobiles from manufacturers (which is seemingly over). The first reason for weight gain (and biggest for most automakers) is the increase in size of every new generation of the same car. For example the 2012 BMW 5 series is bigger then the 1991 BMW 7 series and yet it still manages to come off lighter then the 7 series. Though its much heavier then the 1991 BMW 5 series (and people make the understandable mistake of comparing it in that regard to the 1991 5 series). The other which was also pointed out by a MIT professor comes down to fuel economy, over the period of time (and greater) of the 1991 BMW 5 series and the engineering work into the current 5 series that was a lack of incentive to improve fuel economy. CAFE requirements were not going up any and especially during the 1990s fuel prices were very low in the US (I remember prices that were often $0.87 a gallon for 87 octane in California).

    Now that there is a big move to move the US off of middle eastern oil, off set global warming, higher fuel prices, and stricter regulations auto makers have incentives to improve fuel economy. As a result we are entering an era of better engineered vehicles in order to solve the problem of making a vehicle safer and lighter at the same time. Increase technology as far as the mechanical aspects of vehicles (direct injection, automated manuals in place of automatics, 8 speeds and more) as well as alternative power sources (electric, increase in diesels, fuel cell, renewable fuel sources).

    I can picture an automotive future where most vehicles (90-95%) will be electric(hydrogen fuel cell falls in this group) and the rest being premium or performance vehicles running off things like Ethanol.
    I am not too concerned about fuel economy, but performance numbers for Cadillac. The Technology developed putting together the ATS is good if it can trickle down to Chevrolet and other brands.

    I suspect the Corvette engineering effort is going to be epic

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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001 View Post
    I also remember that, and the story that I took from it and later ones released recently is that the ATS had turned into a pig. However it went on a diet program to bring its weight to under 3,400 pounds. From reports the car was going to be something like 3,600 to 3,800 pounds so if that is true then they managed to take off 200-400+ pounds from the vehicle before production which is impressive.

    .
    According to our sources, at least 250-300 pounds.
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    Re: Cadillac's ATS Cuts Mass 1 Gram at a Time

    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    Well that sucks....joins the Voyage, Solitaire, Sixteen and Cien as stunning, accolades-generating Cadillac concepts NOT built.
    I think and hope we'll see elements of the styling, but not on a low-to-the-ground, four-door convertible.

    Note how the front light pipes of the ATS and XTS resemble the Ciel's headlights.

    The first reason for weight gain (and biggest for most automakers) is the increase in size of every new generation
    Many of the size increases were in the 90's, but the big weight gains of the last decade were mostly due to the extra structure required to meet tougher crash standards, front, rear, side, and rollover. This accounts for the higher beltlines, thicker pillars, and smaller windows, too. Also, American companies discovered the handling advantages and reduced squeaks and shudders of a stiffer unibody.

    My 2004 Deville, no small car, has a V8, airbags, plenty of gizmos, sound insulation, etc. and weighs barely over 4,000 lbs. The 1985 Deville, smaller than mine but longer and wider than the ATS, weighed 3,300 lbs with a V8.

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