Cadillac XTS to use modified Buick LaCrosse underpinnings

[st.clouds]

I don't care, as far as I'm concerned a $60k FWD based sedan is bull. For $60k I could get: an M3, a Cayman S, BMW 550i, an E Class Coupe or... this... ehem... land boat... Speaking about customer, what's their target market anyways? Are they counting on the stupid and rich people? There isn't a whole lot of them left out there, so they better hurry and sell this crap before the market is gone.

I'd rather be getting a Hyundai than this ****. Seriously at least they still know better to engineer their car before putting them in showrroms.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by st.clouds

I don't care, as far as I'm concerned a $60k FWD based sedan is bull.

You'll have to ask Audi and Volvo about the "bull" thing.

And I said it would "probably top-out at $60K". I believe most XTS's will sell in the $45-55K range, just a bit higher than the CTS range.

Originally Posted by st.clouds

I'd rather be getting a Hyundai than this ****. Seriously at least they still know better to engineer their car before putting them in showrroms.

"...still know better to engineer their car.." I don't understand this line. Are you saying that other automakers don't employ engineers?

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by syr74

Easy, all of the car covey the same basic message. A lot of tech, comfort, and space for the money...and good power if you want it.



You are falling for the same trap GM did. The notion that if we build a BMW beater right now we'll figure out how to sustain it later. More to the point, why is GM having to step back from the BMW fighting STS, SXR, and LXR now? The road to fighting BMW and Mercedes is taken in baby steps and the occasional quantum leap, not one massive foray into foreign territory. Cadillac learned that the hard way and not the brand is regressing in several areas with the reality being that Hyundai will be a legit Mercedes competitor before Caddy will....funny, three years ago you would have chucked at that too. Slow and steady wins the race still works. Lincoln was slow to learn, but not as slow as Caddy.



Lincoln did regress, but they figured out that they were overly optimistic well before Cadillac did and have a much better thought out plan regarding what to do about it. Like I said, all Lincolns portray the same message, Cadillac....



Another huge mistake GM made and continues to make.....smart people specifically target markets, not rivals. While Caddy chases BMW Lincoln is chasing customers.



Alpha is in the realm of pure fantasy for GM right now, with recent plans more on again, off again than a Ross Perot Presidential campaign.



I might agree, but for the fact that the MKS is a starting point with the idea being that the cars will evolve apart over time. I actually agree that the cars are too close together at the moment, but so long as the future remains a steady much upmarket for Lincoln I can live with it in the short term. The difference with Caddy and Buick is that they are moving closer together, not further apart. How is that progress? As I alluded to earlier this likely is where Caddy should have started to begin with, but they have gone to far to go back now, not without confusing the customer which is exactly what is going to occur here.



They are getting distinct platforms that underpin exceptional cars. Nothing Audi builds can be compared to a Buick without inducing a giggle or two. Heck, even when Audi did commonly share platforms with VW the lineups made sense.....the only sore spot now is the Audi A3. Caddy on the other hand, is going the same basic route the A3 takes with their entire lineup and then throwing the CTS on top to prove that they are progressive. It doesn't work like that.



Funny, back in April there were several reports that the 'baby Enclave' was being postponed because it didn't do well in clinics, but the buzz is that Buick still plans to introduce a revised version of the same. Chevy, Buick, and Caddy offering similarly sized vehicles on the same Theta platform.....sounds like the same GM we've had for decades.



Actually, aping other brands is Caddy's problem, even worse they can't decide who they want to ape. Their target started out as BMW, but then they decided they wanted a piece of the RX pie too. Aiming for a rival brand instead of a market is a mistake in it's own right, but at least focus on one brand if you are going to ape somebody.



Wait and see which market Caddy tries to break into next week...no thanks.



Mostly rwd products during what month? Give it five minutes, Caddy will change their plan and target. Caddy needs to focus on a cohesive brand message first.....a RX fighting SRX, a tweener that fits between the 3 and 5 Series Bimmers, and a DTS for the modern age don't conspire to accomplish this.

Focused brands succeed, the rest don't...no plainer way to state it.

.

Phewww. All that spin made me dizzy............

[syr74]

Originally Posted by megeebee

.

Phewww. All that spin made me dizzy............

Funny, I got largely the same response from similar folks when I made these criticisms prior to GM filing for bankruptcy.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by megeebee

You'll have to ask Audi and Volvo about the "bull" thing.

I would think Audi earned its right to credibly sell a $60K+ FWD based sedan. Volvo probably too, if they ever decide to do so. The Volvo S80 barely surpasses $51K in its highest trim level.

Cadillac still has a lot to prove . . .

Originally Posted by megeebee

". . . still know better to engineer their car. . ." I don't understand this line. Are you saying that other automakers don't employ engineers?

You know he misspelled . . . it should have read ". . . still know [how to] better to engineer their car[s]. . ."

And judging by Cadillac's and Hyundai's recent developments . . . . he may be into something.

Originally Posted by syr74

.....smart people specifically target markets, not rivals. While Caddy chases BMW Lincoln is chasing customers.

As much as I love how this line sounds, I don't think it holds true any longer. Cadillac quit chasing BMW a while back, this thread is proof of it. It seems more like Cadillac is chasing Buick . . . or rather, its own tail.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by Simon says

And judging by Cadillac's and Hyundai's recent developments . . . . he may be into something.

This from a Ford fan......

[Evo69]

Well as much as I dont like the idea of another FWD Cadillac especially on a shared Epsilon II platform, I would really like to see a new beautifully styled Cadillac in the mix.

But to be serious GM should really give Cadillac its own engineers and interior stylists though.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by megeebee

This from a Ford fan......

Yes, so? We are not even talking about Ford here . . . or is it that me being a part of the extraordinary Ford fandom invalidates somehow the fact that Cadillac up to the last day of September has sold 53,544 vehicles less than it did up to the end of September last year. A drop of 43.6% . . .

Of all people I thought you would come with something better than that . . .