Cadillac SRX as good as Q5?

[Astra RL]

Originally Posted by TakuZaKyousei

But in the end... the "old" SRX sold in numbers so low that it was almost completely let go from the Cadillac line-up. I think GM is doing the right thing by following this new direction

That had a lot to do with marketing. Honestly the only commercial I remember for the SRX when it came out was people being sad because their friend with a SRX had driven for the weekend and they had to get back into their own cars. Another thing had to be the interior of the old SRX it was the same boxy one as the CTS. This was fixed for 2007 but no changes were made to the exterior to indicate to people on the road or in the showroom that the chqnges had taken place.

I understand that they are looking for profits in the new SRX, but there are rumors that a sub enclave will be at a Buick dealer near you. Do they honestly need 4 crossovers to cover the $25-45000 price range when two would do the trick.

Besides a badge what is the difference between a loaded Equinox and a SRX with the 3.0? Yes they are on slightly different platforms but I don't see a lot of difference in specs.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by Astra RL

Besides a badge what is the difference between a loaded Equinox and a SRX with the 3.0? Yes they are on slightly different platforms but I don't see a lot of difference in specs.

First of all, most Cadillac sales are not base models. Most are fully-loaded or nearly fully-loaded. Chevys are much more likely to sale more at or near base model pricing. So complaints about a fully loaded Equinox being near the price of base model SRX are not legitimate in my book.

Why does GM need a Chevy and Cadillac crossover? Because a luxury crossover shopper will not even consider Chevy EVEN IF the "specs" are on par with the luxury crossover they are considering.

[TakuZaKyousei]

Originally Posted by Astra RL

Besides a badge what is the difference between a loaded Equinox and a SRX with the 3.0? Yes they are on slightly different platforms but I don't see a lot of difference in specs.

What's the difference between a base Cayenne and a loaded Touareg? The Loaded VW has a more powerful engine (60 more HP) at the very least. In fact the base Cayenne only has 10HP over the base Touareg.

I mean come on. Let's give this type of thing a rest.

[jmlee0695]

Originally Posted by Astra RL

That had a lot to do with marketing. Honestly the only commercial I remember for the SRX when it came out was people being sad because their friend with a SRX had driven for the weekend and they had to get back into their own cars. Another thing had to be the interior of the old SRX it was the same boxy one as the CTS. This was fixed for 2007 but no changes were made to the exterior to indicate to people on the road or in the showroom that the chqnges had taken place.

I understand that they are looking for profits in the new SRX, but there are rumors that a sub enclave will be at a Buick dealer near you. Do they honestly need 4 crossovers to cover the $25-45000 price range when two would do the trick.

Besides a badge what is the difference between a loaded Equinox and a SRX with the 3.0? Yes they are on slightly different platforms but I don't see a lot of difference in specs.

Slightly? Try toatally. The TE platform is more E than T, like 70% E I've heard NSAP say.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

That's a stereotype that has its roots in a whole lotta truth. What is true is that Denali owners do have a higher income than Escalade owners.
A LOT can be gleaned from that.

Oooook ..... not really.... its old, but in some ways that makes it better.

Cadillac < Escalade > buyers' average age, income


Cadillac Escalade

50

$145,000


Cadillac Escalade EXT

49

$107,000

Cadillac Escalade ESV

47

$250,000


For calendar year 2003 Source: Cadillac


******************************


Yukon buyers' average age, income


GMC Yukon

46

$99,900


GMC Yukon Denali

45

$144,900

GMC Yukon XL Denali

46

$158,400


For calendar year 2003 Source: GMC

So....... you might want to match up both sets of numbers......... carefully of course..

There is also a useful distinction to make we can't do here between auto survey reported gross income and true net wealth.

The great thing for GM in all this is both are decent enough for both product lines.

[TakuZaKyousei]

Cadillac buyers' average age, income

Cadillac Escalade

50

$145,000


Cadillac Escalade EXT

49

$107,000

Cadillac Escalade ESV

47

$250,000

For calendar year 2003 Source: Cadillac



****


Yukon buyers' average age, income


GMC Yukon

46

$99,900


GMC Yukon Denali

45

$144,900

GMC Yukon XL Denali

46

$158,400

For calendar year 2003 Source: GMC

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Oooook ..... its old, but in some ways that makes it better.



So....... you might want to match up the numbers......... carefully of course..

There is also a useful distinction to make between reported gross income and true net wealth.

The great thing for GM in all this is both are decent enough for both product lines.

Funny. Isn't that right around the time Bob Lutz made that comment about the Denali owners making more than the Escalades?

Interesting that the only Escalade that ranks below the Denali is the EXT

[AMERICA 123]

Exactly - on both - I think ?

So outside of that - the XLT........

Could 've changed either way from 2004 forward, but really, they have probably maintained the same kind of 'income' relationships with negligible float.

Notice btw, the ages.


*******

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Oooook ..... not really.... its old, but in some ways that makes it better.



So....... you might want to match up both sets of numbers......... carefully of course..

There is also a useful distinction to make we can't do here between auto survey reported gross income and true net wealth.

The great thing for GM in all this is both are decent enough for both product lines.

Bravo.

I knew his statement about the average Cadillac buyer was BS, but I didn't have the numbers to prove it.

[TakuZaKyousei]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Exactly - on both - I think ?

So outside of that - the XLT........

Could 've changed either way from 2004 forward, but really, they have probably maintained the same kind of 'income' relationships with negligible float.

Notice btw, the ages.


*******

I'm sorry my friend. You shouldn't have found this information. Now Mgscuro and his band "non-elite Elitist" will have one less piece of ammo to use in their quest to belittle Cadillac buyers.

I swear to God I was reading through some older posts and I actually read a coupla saying that only poor people bought Cadillacs. "Low Hanging Fruit" was the term used to describe these people. Like poor people can afford a $70K Escalade any faster than they can afford a $80K Range Rover.

I'm starting to believe what makes the Range Rover owner appear wealthier is the fact that he absolutely must be his own boss to afford all the days he'll have to take off to spend at the dealership service bay.

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by TakuZaKyousei

So of the nameplates you mentioned only Benz actually has a vehicle that one could call a Escalade competitor. HEre's where this double standard bull crap gets old. It's when you people belittle Cadillac for one thing yet fail to mention that it's competitors are devoid of product in certain segments as well.

Furthermore the SRX is 190.3 inches. The X5 has a length of 191.1 inches. I fail to see, even if comparing the similar wheelbases, how the 179.9inch X3 is being compared to the SRX.

OH... here we go with this pricing thing again Cadillac being PENALIZED because the don't out and out GOUGE their customer base like the Germans do.

Come on Cadillac. Raise your prices even higher so all these people who think they should be in line with the Germans can have even a harder time buying you cars.

Huh? I'm not talking about Tahoe with a wreath and crest on it.

The SRX is clearly compared with the Q5, which is the same class as the X3, EX, and GLK.

It's a mid-sized Cross over that is priced like a compact cross overs. Waas up with that?

Cadillac needs to move up market, there are 3 brands to slot in underneath.

You say it's too high? Compared to the Germans, the prices I listed are still much cheaper!

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Bravo.

I knew his statement about the average Cadillac buyer was BS, but I didn't have the numbers to prove it.

As you know PistonsFan, we are the source for -.....

Appreciate all the charts you put up lately. There is now an outside chance I'll be able to keep my T2B5 and T2B2 straight.

Originally Posted by TakuZaKyousei

I'm sorry my friend. You shouldn't have found this information. Now Mgscuro and his band "non-elite Elitist" will have one less piece of ammo to use in their quest to belittle Cadillac buyers.

I swear to God I was reading through some older posts and I actually read a coupla saying that only poor people bought Cadillacs. "Low Hanging Fruit" was the term used to describe these people. Like poor people can afford a $70K Escalade any faster than they can afford a $80K Range Rover.

I'm starting to believe what makes the Range Rover owner appear wealthier is the fact that he absolutely must be his own boss to afford all the days he'll have to take off to spend at the dealership service bay.

TakuZaKyousei you know, I found and 'lost' this other one from 2007 covered the 'demographic vortex' that Lexi still finds itself in - had a great poster and comments with it and the thread ( not here ) was pretty good too .

Btw, we never let NYC or SF do the talkin' for us in Arizona, Chicago, or Texas or Idaho or Colorado or for damn sure anywhere else come to think of it.

Hell, some of those people are struggling to pay train and cab fare and are looking for cheaper parking arrangements - for their dinged up '06 Odyssey.


******

You know, its kinda' funny.

For the first time, I'm seeing somebody really tear into LR.

That would be MB with the GL.

The kicker is ...... that's in terms of both gas and diesel.

Kinda' don't like to see that in a way.........

I still got a soft spot for anything English, or French or Italian with four wheels especially with some of the weather just recently past - of course that's when it was easiest to keep the old ones running . .

On the other hand the old car nights have never looked better and its almost all domestic.

Sometimes you could just cry when you see all that - and realize what we've done to ourselves but hey, I'm figuring Long Beach by '20 and Toyota City by '30 - in a Cadillac.

********

Speaking of gettin' all tore up, this new SRX is going to do just that to somebody or somebodies - its going to be fun to watch.

[TakuZaKyousei]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

TakuZaKyousei you know, I found and 'lost' this other one from 2007 covered the 'demographic vortex' that Lexi still finds itself in - had a great poster and comments with it and the thread ( not here ) was pretty good too .

******

A friend of mine once posted:

Despite it's horrible reliability... A Benz is still a Benz.

I personally have never accepted the fact that one could actually go out and spend $100K on a car in the first place but people do it... and the only reason I can figure is IMAGE. Please Remember that despite what the "Smoke and Mirrors" say.. Lexus is not BENZ... or BMW... or Cadillac... or Audi... or Jaguar. Sure they have a nice car in the LS460, but it lacks the prestige of all of the aforementioned names. In reality I think that even with the intro of the $100K Lexus Hybrid LS, it still aspires to occupy a position that in reality just 30-40 years was occupied by Buick. Certainly a Lexus is CURRENTLY on a higher rung, but with the addition of one car... just one car in Buick's line up they would almost be equal.. Once again "SMOKE AND MIRRORS." Buick China proves that.

Let's see we have the IS350... nice performance, but HEY!!!! So is an Evo or Cobalt SS/SC. Been inside one? Infiniti triumphs it. The engine is not so smooth as the VQs 3.5L or the GM 3.6L HF

We have the ES350... A JOKE.. A top of the line Camry with nothing outside the better interior and smoother exterior to differentiate it from the GRAND POS CAMRY.

We have the RX350... a nice crossover for the most part, but it like all Lexi lacks anything that sets it apart from the pack. I mean who else but a previous minivan driving housewife would aspire to have an RX350???

Bringing me to the GS... LOL... this is one FAT looking car... The 0-60 in 5.4secs in the Hybrid version is admirable, but I am beginning to think that they are just a urban legend, since I have yet to ever see one except with the pages of Motor Trend and such... The other GSs.. the 450 and 350 are nasty to look at, bloated and seemingly guilty of the second of the Seven Deadly Sins... GLUTTONY. I liken it constantly to what a Corolla would look like if it sat around all day eating Krispy Kreme Donuts.

OK the SC430... When I see one I think about taking a bath.. Is it the fact that it attempts to recall the Porsche 356.. AKA the "Bathtub car" or that it also reminds me of a piece of soap. The driving dynamics are ludicrous. Take a corner to fast and U will be glad that U have that insurance policy then.

The LX570... This thing is so similar to the vehicle it shares it's platform with that the only comparison I can use is if I were comparing a Chevy Tahoe LT to a Chevy Tahoe LTZ.

The GX470???? Oh COME ON!!!

Heck even Lincoln has more history than Lexus, who for all intent purposes has really only become prominent in the last 5 years with the advent of the LS430. This is not a JAB at them by any means despite my well known hate for the company, but it is fact plain and simple. And before the BS comes in about Cadillac, realize that yes they dropped the ball by not becoming more "Euro-inspired" in the 90s with the rest of the Luxo makers, but they also seem to have a LOT of people pulling for them to reclaim their past stature... Lexus does not inspire such passion...

You know, its kinda' funny.

For the first time, I'm seeing somebody really tear into LR.

That would be MB with the GL.

The kicker is ...... that's in terms of both gas and diesel.

Kinda' don't like to see that in a way.........

I still got a soft spot for anything English, or French or Italian with four wheels especially with some of the weather just recently past - of course that's when it was easiest to keep the old ones running . .

On the other hand the old car nights have never looked better and its almost all domestic.

Sometimes you could just cry when you see all that - and realize what we've done to ourselves but hey, I'm figuring Long Beach by '20 and Toyota City by '30 - in a Cadillac.

********

Speaking of gettin' all tore up, this new SRX is going to do just that to somebody or somebodies - its going to be fun to watch.

Here's one out in the wild this weekend.

[AMERICA 123]

Couldn't agree with you more and thanks for the photos !

Lexus now is and will be for at least a good stretch highly vulnerable - they always were the ultimate bubble economy brand - never produced a true thorough breed - it was their marketing not the cars themselves .....and now they've cut too much along with being caught out of position - like basically everyone else.

( I swear, if you look at the LS closely enough you see some Corolla bits and pieces or slightly modified versions there of . Can't be totally sure of that - haven't seen a Corolla for awhile but there is stuff that is vaguely familiar that shouldn't be and I think its from off of that one - or similar )

***

A usable, practical, profitable now strategy would be in terms of other brand focus - to go directly after Lexus, Acura and conduct kinda' high value hit and runs against the Germans and then later, if desirable go up market from there.

- And of course, while keeping the more Domestic Luxury side going along as well. ( Escalade, DTS and - )


This thread has covered just about the whole topic - again - I've mixed feelings just as others have pointed out.

A lot of it is obsolete though, the world changed after last fall and its not done yet in terms of what matters for this segment.

At least a solid third of this market segment volume is not coming back in the US for a long time; gross and price points are going to be affected and the regulatory climate changes just by themselves matters big as well..

Now that we're here....... gee, a V12 V16 centered uberalles approach for Cadillac that wasn't introduced and continuously fed copious amounts of non existent money from the mid nineties forward would 've looked beyond stupid - the political and perception fallout might've even cost them their financial aid. ( Cadillac does V16 1,000HP - Toyota does Prius - now throw in a 2004 -2009 intro ).

Besides go look at the ultra high end sales results for the last 16 months - there are two losers for every winner story - and the spots have been shifting around.

And no, it would not have prevented anything. In fact, the only question would've been how much worse things would have been. in how many ways. Its really a shot that should have been taken no later than the eighties. Cadillac took real money to buy from the 50's back and was worth every penny of it......... so the best solution is also out of reach ie a rewrite of the mid fifties forward.

Well, until one of two things happens Cadillac is going to have to focus differently than many of the others and this SRX looks and sounds right for all that.

It may not be exactly the first choice for many of us here but its very likely to be exactly what Cadillac needs - right now.

Heck, I'm going to take a look and while it may not go 'here' it for damn sure can go 'there' and be a perfect solution.

I gotta' see the ass end in person - it does appear 'large' in all the photos.

Anyway,

Either Cadillac has to start building product outside the USA or the US has to get rid of the massive VAT disadvantage domestic production faces going overseas.

And really, they need some kickass diesels for all that as well.

Everybody seems to forget the volume base the Germans have by being able to produce primarily in Germany and export all over - with a VAT situation that ranges from neutral to massive help while anything built here is at a massive disadvantage..

[wescoent]

Lexus now is and will be for at least a good stretch highly vulnerable - they always were the ultimate bubble economy brand - never produced a true thorough breed - it was their marketing not the cars themselves .....and now they've cut too much along with being caught out of position - like basically everyone else.

( I swear, if you look at the LS closely enough you see some Corolla bits and pieces or slightly modified versions there of )

***

A usable, practical, profitable now strategy would be to go directly after Lexus, Acura and conduct kinda' high value hit and runs against the Germans and then later, if desirable go up market from there.

- And of course, while keeping the more Domestic Luxury side going along as well. ( Escalade, DTS and - )

So Cadillac should go after Lexus... FINE, but then what's the point of Buick?

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by wescoent

So Cadillac should go after Lexus... FINE, but then what's the point of Buick?

Seriously....
People on GMI can't seem to answer that one...