Cadillac SLS joins portofolio in middle east

[750li]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

All they need now is an ottoman, massaging rear seat/s and oscillating fans and I'd really be jealous.

.... acutally it already has massaging/heated/cooled rear seats ...

this site has all the pictures you want ....http://photo.auto.sina.com.cn/picture.html#143447
.... it really is a beautiful car..

[Phoenix]

The STS is an ugly vehicle anyway and looks like crap next to the CTS. We just need an all new vehicle as soon as possible.

[aldw]

No subcompacts for Caddy, period, but the RWD BTS needs to be a spiritual successor to the legendary Lotus Omega to help build credibility.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by aldw

No subcompacts for Caddy, period, but the RWD BTS needs to be a spiritual successor to the legendary Lotus Omega to help build credibility.

I wouldn't say "never" to a subcompact Caddy -- at least in Europe. Or if it's a 2-seat roadster.

But a 5-door luxury sport hatch for Europe wouldn't be bad for Europe.
Or a BLS 2-door sport hatch, if a subcompact is fully out of the cards.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

well excussssssssssssse me. if it weren't for the poor product planning that let Cadillac be the BMW/Honda "Class Leader" status it HAD to the "lets try not to be a waste of time/space/money" it still is perception wise and sub par brand actually, then we wouldn't be talking about this today. hahahahaha, lincoln is even worse off. I don't look down to easier competition I look up to the Best, why do you think I'm at U-M Ann Arbor? Honestly, BMW will sell me a 328i, 330i, 335i, M3, vert's of the 3series, wagongs, I can buy a 528i (like my aunt), 530i, 535i, 550i, M5, 6series coupe/vert, 7series SWB/LWB all the way up to a 760Li. Thats not counting the Z4 either, or class leading X3/X5 or the new Suv-Cuv mix mesh they just unveiled a month or so ago. Now THATS a vehicle lineup! This Global Market in one of, if not THE, Most competitive industry in the world is not going to wait. GM has a HUGE IMAGE PROBLEM AS DO ALL ITS BRANDS, almost half the population WON'T EVEN CONSIDER THEIR PRODUCT! remember, in 1950, there were what? 100-150million people in the country, now there's over 300 million so actually if you look at the potentially lost customers its more like 66-75% of the country won't even look at their products. I remember sitting on a medical unit at the hospital I work at this past summer. A CTS-V commercial came on, and I said, (to a male nurse) "hey check out that Cadillac on TV with the Corvette engine in it and a 6MT, thats a great car!" His response was kind of denying the facts saying something along the lines of "Its a big barging Cadillac, to showy for me..." even though its RWD, sporty, and has a vette engine, all of which i tried to point out to him. He still wouldn't listen, and he was a baby boomer. MILLIONS OF FAMILIES ACROSS America think that way and act that way! We are enthusiasts, we understand change years ahead of the general public, i get that, but most people don't!

Cadillac was so BAD with big cars that they gave away all the 'higher hanging fruit' to S class 7 series A8 and LS ...who do they get now? Middle to upper middle class guys who worked their whole lives and are now blowing it all on a Cadillac. There are still some affluent people (net worth 5 million + ) that purchase Cadillac's but those percentages are few and far between relative to the 50's, 60's, and early 70's.

I don't care HOW 'complicated' it may be, this is GM's FLAGSHIP brand, their 'best of the best' and if they can't figure it out, shame on them. Like whirling Dervish used to say on here, "Adapt. Or die." He was a very intelligent poster and taught me that lesson relative to the Auto Industry.

NO CONSUMER WILL WAIT ON GM, and guess what, thats why 3 series is best seller in its class ever, thats why Camry, Accord, Corrolla, and Civic are all best sellers and generate over half the profits of Toyota and Honda from the US market. Thats why BMW does great! They offer great product and have for decades. Hell, if I didn't KNOW from my insider info that a Turbo Cobalt was coming out, and if I didn't get GMS and whatnot, I would have hopped in a MazdaSpeed3 in a heartbeat! Same goes for a GTI! Fortunately, financially and product launch wise- I will be getting the Turbo Cobalt SS and it'll be the right buy, at the right price, at the right time, with the right finances...but most consumers are NOT like me. At least I understand this and don't bury my head in the sand.

You don't sell an entry level Luxury watch and not sell a loaded out top of the line one, you don't offer good wines without offering great wines in a 5 star restraunt, you don't offer a Kohl's suit (top of the line) without offering a Hugo Boss or Armani suit at a Macy's, Neiman Marcus, etc. So you don't sell an ENTRY LEVEL LUXURY CTS without offering a ULS for your MOST AFFLUENT AND INFLUENTIAL CUSTOMERS!!!!!!!!! I will maintain my belief that Cadillac will BE second tier or tier 1-AA Luxury UNTIL it sells a ULS / SLS in North America. Why? Because as GM's flagship, if you are going to compete Globally, that needs to be done. "But its sooo hard to make one, price it high, and engineer it to make money on it!"---> Guess what I don't give a damn, if BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, and Jaguar can afford to do it, then GM the Biggest (2nd Biggest) automaker in the World SHOULD be able to do it. I don't care if it loses money, it must be done long term or GM should just sell every brand it can't make competitive and class leading and just keep Chevrolet, GMC, Hummer, Saturn, Opel, and Holden and Be Done. If you can't make it work then thats unacceptable. CTS is a great start, I do recognize the brand is in transition, but guess what its still subpar until the transition is complete. The other auto companies are not waiting for Cadillac to catch up, and Cadillac still cannot be the Infiniti G or BMW 3 even with it's "best handling Cadillac Ever!" the CTS. So if your best effort is still not good enough, you need to adapt, change, and offer what the people want, not a "good deal". Never in my life have i EVER heard of Luxury and "getting a good deal" in the same sentence, they are polar opposites, an irony, a paradox at least with TRUE LUXURY products. ---/end rant.

BS yourself. I LOVE Cadillac, my favorite auto brand in the world, but guess what, they're not where they need to be, or where they used to be (40 years ago) and THAT is disappointing. I'm very optimistic they will get there, but until I see a BLS/BLS-V (with turbo V6 6MT) in coupe and sedan (and vert) as well as CTS w/ V8 (non-V), a Coupe, and the other necessary luxury appointments to take on the E/5 FULLY, in addition to a 6 series/ CLS fighter and 7 series type vehicle SOLD IN THE UNITED STATES...I will still be disappointed and skeptical. Great individual products like CTS/Escalade (which still isn't where it needs to be) are amazing, but don't try and convince me EVER that Cadillac is a superior brand to BMW/Mercedes Benz/Lexus/Audi until those REQUIREMENTS are met.

I will wait because I'm young and not a target demographic buyer for Cadillac...yet. But when I'm 28-death making 6-7 figures, outside of Corvette, Camaro, Trans Am, my first bought car a T/C Cobalt SS, possibly a Buick Enclave for the wife in the future, and any other specialty vehicles that pique my interest (Saturn SKY RL maybe or whatever else comes about?) I'll be DRIVING Cadillacs with manuals and autos my entire life. So shove that up your tailpipe! If GM goes bankrupt it'll be Vdubs and BMW's and AUDI's for me but God forbid that ever happen!!!!

CobaltSScrazy

Greetings CobaltSScrazy,

I realize you are responding to another GMIer, but I really believe if Cadillac's style and design does not meet your requirements, then you should purchase the brand model that does. I remain very positive regarding BMW, Cadillac, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz. In my evaluation, they all offer some very stellar products that meet my requirements. And because I chose Cadillac's STS/STS-V and XLR/XLR-V takes nothing away from BMW's 5/M5 and Mercedes-Benz's CLS550/CLS63 AMG, SL550/SL55/600 AMG. These are from all I can ascertain, superb cars with many strengths and few true weaknesses that I found.

The luxury brand value clearly is in the eye of the luxury buyer and I would suspect that is not going to change anytime soon. I would certainly agree with you in regards to BMW's 3 in that Cadillac does not offer a direct model comparison other than in pricing of the CTS. And if the requirements of the luxury buyers is specific to a compact size sports sedan, then BMW 3, Audi A4, Mercedes-Benz C Class and Lexus IS models will meet their requirement the best I would assume. However, if midsize is not ruled out and price within segment is a strong criteria, along with style, design, performance, handling, ride quality and features, Cadillac's new 2008 CTS hits the mark in a very demonstrative manner.

All of this depends on the what the requirements are of the luxury buyers in this segment. So, I would offer a slightly different viewpoint in regards to Cadillac's current car product offerings in the STS/STS-V, XLR/XLR-V and new CTS. I find these three Cadillac performance luxury cars offer competitive alternatives to the luxury brand models I reviewed from BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus extensively. If a luxury buyers is not predisposed to any luxury brand model, which rarely is the case, they would find all these models are in fact very competitive with each other. But there are differences in design and it depends on if these differences are of major or minor impact to you. In my case, Cadillac's styling, design, performance, advance technologies, ride quality, driving dynamics and systems integration fit my requirements better than any other luxury performance brand model from Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus.

If Mercedes-Benz offered styling and design similar to the CLS in their sedan line, I might consider more than just one model. In the case of BMW, I understand their design theme, it just does not excite me at all. And Lexus is more of the same, nothing exciting. It is somewhat simple for me, because Cadillac's style and design feels so far ahead of the other luxury brands they are always running in 2nd place compared to Cadillac. I realize not everyone looks at cars as I do, but the overall design of the car must be compelling to my eyes and for the most part the other luxury brands simply fall far short. The only luxury brand I have hopes for is Jaguar, with their new XF luxury sedan. I am not sure if I will find it as compelling as Cadillac's style and design, but it is the only design other than Cadillac and Aston Martin that truly appeals to my sense of design.

I firmly believe if there is no passion for the car design you select, then any car will do and that applies double for luxury brand cars. All things are not equal when it comes to Cadillac's styling in my view, their designs, if they connect with you, provides the love affair with cars, car enthusiasts dream of. I have found that emotional connection with Cadillac's STS/STS-V, XLR/XLR-V and new 2008 CTS. And I was somewhat apprehensive waiting for the new CTS to appear, once I saw it in person, I concluded Cadillac's designers hit the correct balance in the second generation CTS, a home run from a design perspective.

JLM

[camaro_freak]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

We all know Cadillac is a "brand in transition." The problem id that it's been in transition for 7 years and counting. Essentially what they have gotten during that time is a one-hit wonder with the CTS. ANything else that deviates from that has run into a brick wall. Ok. Escalade remains a decent presence in the market.

And now there's no Sixteen-type vehicle. No S-Class-type vehicle. Just a full-sized DTS/STS replacement, that, while sized like an S-Class, will not be an S-Class competitor.
You'll have the CTS slotting in against the 5-series in 3 years or so. Will it be like the current 5 or the future 5, we don't know. And it will be a family. That much we know.
You'll have the BLS in 2-3 years slotting squarely against the 3. This should be a family as well, and should hopefully prove to be the solid global car Cadillac needs.
XLR's MCE is due next year with a full revamp in 4-5 years or so with C7.
SRX becomes "BRX" on a cheaper, less exclusive FWD-based platform. No telling how well this will perform in the Cadillac lineup.
But out of all those changes, Cadillac is still lacking the one car that will make all the difference perceptually -- the S-Class competitor.

Cadillac might have been the leader in full-sized/oversized luxury. But that world has passed them by 2 decades ago. They are struggling to catch up to the leaders, while trying to define themselves. And I'm all for that. But the fact that we're 7+ years from the start of the Renaissance, and Cadillac still has product alignment problems? Marketing problems? Image and public perception problems? Plus a decidedly unluxurious dealership experience? I would have expected more from 7 years and $5 billion.

And the question about the SLS has never been truly answered by GM. Yes, we can't get an extended length Sigma in the US because of "safety regulations." But the fact the interior never made it over? ANd now the "entry level" CTS has outclassed the Cadillac flagship sedan? That's embarrassing. It doesn't sit well with me.

By the time Cadillac comes out with the car I want, it will be a 10-11 year wait. I went from Catera to CTS to STS and CTS Gen2. And the Caddy I came closest to pulling the trigger on was the Catera. Ended up with the 9-5 instead.
I'm no longer waiting for Cadillac to shape up. By all reasonable expectations, that should have been done by 2005.... not 2010. But when I replace the 9-5 in 2010, I'll give CTS's MCE another shot. But next to XF or a new 5 and E? I can only hope Cadillac will finally have its head on straight in 2010.

all great points, I totally agree that Caddy has had 7 YEARS to get its portfolio in line, Saturn did it in just over 3 using Opel, why can't the TOP TIER brand do it in twice as many years.

inexcuseable....

We should have a proper 3 series fighter now here in NA and not the underbaked BLS that is only available in Europe

We should have a proper 5 series fighter instead of this middle ground '08 CTS

We should have a S class and 7 series fighter instead of a death warmed over decade old FRONT WHEEL DRIVE DTS OR a STS that is beaten in every department by its own smaller sister car (CTS)!

The SUV/CUV we have only got major interior upgrades and minor exterior tidbits in its MCE instead of a full blown redesign. The age lines are starting to show too.

The only thing Caddy has right now that is right is the 'Slade...

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by camaro_freak

all great points, I totally agree that Caddy has had 7 YEARS to get its portfolio in line, Saturn did it in just over 3 using Opel, why can't the TOP TIER brand do it in twice as many years.

inexcuseable....

We should have a proper 3 series fighter now here in NA and not the underbaked BLS that is only available in Europe

We should have a proper 5 series fighter instead of this middle ground '08 CTS

We should have a S class and 7 series fighter instead of a death warmed over decade old FRONT WHEEL DRIVE DTS OR a STS that is beaten in every department by its own smaller sister car (CTS)!

The SUV/CUV we have only got major interior upgrades and minor exterior tidbits in its MCE instead of a full blown redesign. The age lines are starting to show too.

The only thing Caddy has right now that is right is the 'Slade...

Greeting camaro_freak,

These are very good points, but they have little value for luxury buyers. Luxury buyers are not evaluating Cadillac's model migration, they simply look for a luxury car product that meets their requirements.

It is obvious Cadillac does not offer a model that is competitive with Mercedes-Benz's S Class and I would agree that Cadillac should participate in this segment.

However, in regards to Cadillac's portfolio, it depends on your luxury requirements and if Cadillac's style and design meets your requirements, then Cadillac will be your luxury brand of choice.

I have evaluated in my view some of the worlds best midsize performance premium sport sedans and performance luxury roadsters that meet my requirement in BMW''s 5/M5, Cadillac's STS/STS-V, Mercedes-Benz's CSL/CLS55 AMG and Lexus GS430. Cadillac new 2008 CTS is very impressive from any critical view one can take.

I have purchase two Cadillac models after comparing with other luxury models available. I found the ones I tested all attractive luxury cars with Cadillac's STS and XLR the best for my requirements. Anyone truly looking to purchase luxury cars determines what best fits their requirements and Cadillac will be among their preference for some and others will find other luxury brand models that best fit their requirements.

I like the idea of Cadillac expanding their model line up, as they begin their second generation of Art and Science product annoucements starting with their first introduction, the CTS.

JLM

[SAngelo]

What is all of this crap about safety regulations ?. Just do what you could to improve safety regulations which may increase the weight of the car but so be it. The SLS would be a great temporary fix until the new replacements arrive in 2010. Bring over the SLS, improve the safety regs, put the STS V engine in it or get the Ultra V8 in it. This safety reg crap is the same excuse used for why the Epsilons (08 Malibu/Aura/G6) don't have a Navigation screen. Also, are they still using the excuse of need to ramp up the 6 speeds. GM should have 6 speeds in all of their cars except for a base Cobalt. They can market this and run with it. It would be nice to wake up to here the news below.

Cadillac

SLS comes to US with more power or STS gets SLS interior
SRX gets smoothed out front and rear to go with new interior. replacement in two years.

Buick
Lucerne gets tweaked front, tweaked interior and 3.6 DI with 6 speed which I think is happening. Yay !!!!
Lacrosse is put out to pasture waiting for new design
Enclave - Gets new 3.6 liter DI V6 (this is coming), should at mid year

Chevrolet -
Impala, gets revised Center stack with brushed alum covering the whole stack and gets optional Navigation screen/bluetooth. All Impalas get 6 speed auto and LTZ gets the 3.6 DI or one rated at 270 +HP. This all happens before rear wheel drive. Also maybe a bolder grille for new chevy look.

Malbu - GM reworks wiring and Gets Navigation screen/bluetooth and HO 3.6 to beat out Camry, Accord and Altima.

Cobalt - Gets tweaked front end/rear end but major dashboard changes to match competion or maybe Malibu like dash. This car just needs better center stack and flowing dash. Also, this car gets better handling, steering, ride, better seats and improved rear room.

Equinox - Before redesign to match Vue, GM trashes 3.4 for 2.4 hybrid and 3.5. All Equinoxes get improved handling, steering and ride and quietness. The Sport now feels like a mini Acadia.

Trailblazer - killed in favor of lambda with a 3.6 DI.

Pontiac

G8 - Cant wait until it comes. This car needs to have a Nav screen from Grand Prix.
G6 - Revised interior mostly center stack to add new corporate radio and brushed alum and yes a optional Nav/bluetooth
G5 - Cobalt changes but make it look diff than Cobalt1
Torent - Equinox changes
Grand Prix - Get rid of this car, give Nav screen to other cars in GM.

Saturn - This division I love and I drive a 2000 SL2 and very proud of it.

Vue -Decrease weight on Vue by 500 lbs.
Aura - I heard getting revised dash, hopefully to also give it Optional Nav screen. Also, we need the red line !!!!!! Add a 2 door version.
Astra - A redline version with more gears, and a trunk 2 and 4 door.

Come on GM, you can make these changes. I think the existing portfolio of cars need a MCE as much as them getting the new cars here. GM still has too many cars that people don't want or don't compete.