Cadillac replacing DTS and STS with one vehicle, entry-level model coming

[uujjj]

GM shouldn't try to match its competitors head to head in matching segments. I think their current strategy of placing their cars in between segments is the right approach, since it avoids the inevitably bloody hand to hand combat. The CTS sits between the 3 and 5 series, and the new luxury car should likewise sit between the 5 and 7, about the size of the 7 but priced close to and just above the 5. An entry level car just smaller than the 3 series/G35/A4/C-class also makes sense, though it shouldn't go too low (ie shouldn't go down to the 1 series/A3 level).

[Carguy]

Originally Posted by uujjj

GM shouldn't try to match its competitors head to head in matching segments. I think their current strategy of placing their cars in between segments is the right approach, since it avoids the inevitably bloody hand to hand combat. The CTS sits between the 3 and 5 series, and the new luxury car should likewise sit between the 5 and 7, about the size of the 7 but priced close to and just above the 5. An entry level car just smaller than the 3 series/G35/A4/C-class also makes sense, though it shouldn't go too low (ie shouldn't go down to the 1 series/A3 level).

I agree with the sizing matter completely and I think the STS-or-SLS name should be kept for the new STS/DTS replacement. Its the oldest name still used in the Cadillac brand now and they should keep it. If they use the ZETA platform it should be a premium version with duble A arm front suspension and a more premium rear suspension then todays ZETA has. And build it between the 5 and the 7 series cars as mentioned above with V8 only power in NON DI 360HP forms for the base model and DI 400HP form as a CTS like opt useing the new ULTRA V8!

[surburban99]

Any idea when this may happen???

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Cadillacs are supposed to be flamboyant. If you don't want flamboyant buy a Buick or Saab.

Bravo Eaton:

That's just what a Cadillac is! Without Glitz, Bling, and Glamor, Cadillac is nothing! That's why people who buy it buy it! It's the whole reason the Escalade sells! It's why I loved Cadillac since the 1967 Eldorado (though I was way too young to drive it ).

Senior management at GM are talking about Ultra this and that, have you seen the F700 Mercedes Concept? It features gasoline engine technology that's more than 10 years ahead of anything GM has talked about.

I sum up to say: GM make what you know how to make, Glamorous Big Cars, use high engine tech for the environment and social conscience, but make them beautiful, fast, and yes flamboyant!

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by Bravada

This IS flamboyant, Cadillac, and everybody likes it:



When you go flamboyant, you have to know HOW.

Yes, Bravada:

And one of the most valuable Cadillac's ever made! THE FLEETWOOD ELDORADO BROUGHAM! The Standard of the World.

[jbartley]

please don't price the entry level any lower the 29k. make it pretty loaded, and it'll top out around 35k.

and if you read carefully, it just says they're, "seriously considering it".

[jbartley]

Originally Posted by uujjj

GM shouldn't try to match its competitors head to head in matching segments. I think their current strategy of placing their cars in between segments is the right approach, since it avoids the inevitably bloody hand to hand combat. The CTS sits between the 3 and 5 series, and the new luxury car should likewise sit between the 5 and 7, about the size of the 7 but priced close to and just above the 5. An entry level car just smaller than the 3 series/G35/A4/C-class also makes sense, though it shouldn't go too low (ie shouldn't go down to the 1 series/A3 level).

right on matey!

[Phoenix]

I see no reason why Cadillac and Saab can't both have entry vehicles. And Bravada, does your opinion of A&S Cadillacs really count for all of Europe? Have you seen the new CTS in person?

[Bravada]

I see no reason why Cadillac and Saab can't both have entry vehicles.

One day when GM is back on track firing on all cylinders, and both brand will be firmly established in all markets. Right now Saab needs all the investment GM can give in its CORE compact executive model to survive, while Cadillac needs to continue to refine their CORE large cars to establish themselves among the world's finest.

And Bravada, does your opinion of A&S Cadillacs really count for all of Europe? Have you seen the new CTS in person?

1) Yes, excluding Powervette. See the sales numbers for a proof.
2) No, but I don't suppose flawed proportions in photos look any better in person.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Bravada

From what I've seen, STS's sales are down in the dumpster already, and I haven't heard anything yet on the timeframe for the replacement. I don't think retooling the plant to mirror the Chinese SLS line would be too costly, so they could move the STS into the S-Class territory just about today.

It would also make sense to kill the DTS and Lucerne at that time to make room for the new Buick Park Avenue to take over from both. Well, GMI sense at least, even if not financial sense...

STS sales have been down since it's 1st year. GM showed they weren't willing to invest in a loser product by moving the Chinese interior to the United States. Instead, they showed that they were willing to kill a car that's been a staple of the Cadillac lineup, in one form or another, for 30+ years.
GM decided that it was best to stat new, with a shared platform, that is both cheaper and larger.

GM will have 8 full sized RWD cars of varying shapes and sizes when all is said and done. And they'll all probably look essentially the same.

It won't be anything special. And it certainly won't be an S-Class competitor. The moment hte media and every single person on GMI realizes that fact, the better off we all will be. Once those comparisons start to unfold, the XLS is dead in the water. You don't compete with that class of vehicle by offering a "value." You'll be laughed off the market.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bravada

1) Yes, excluding Powervette. See the sales numbers for a proof.
2) No, but I don't suppose flawed proportions in photos look any better in person.

1) The Sales numbers of garbage cars do not prove anything to me
2) These are GM photos, GM cars always look better in real life, I nearly crapped my pants when I saw the Camaro concept and CTS for the first time in person. Also Commodore/G8 looks great in person compared to bland in photos.

[eaton53]

GM cars always look better in real life

No kidding. I haven't seen any photo of the CTS that comes close to doing it justice.

My favorite view is standing next to the driver's door and looking toward the front headlight. It's amazing metalwork.... bulgy and pointy at the same time!

[monza164]

I really wonder what this thing will be called. I'm telling you it should be the DTS and carry on the Deville's place as Caddy's full sizer, sort of. Then it would be

B.. whaterver
CTS
DTS
E... I don't know Eldorado? (suggesting a full sized coupe, not a silly "ultimate luxury car)

[EldoFan]

For all the people whining about a true 3-series competitor being priced too low, go look at the new 1-series and see if you can come back again and spout the same BS.

Most of the time I don't take very well with what MG has to say about Cadillac, but realistically, I think he's right. The XLS (or whatever they're gonna name the DTS/STS replacement) will be an admirable first attempt, but it won't exactly be nipping at the heels of the S-Class......

I'd also like to see something different.....rather than just bringing over the SLS and doing a lil nip/tuck here and there.....with the new CTS, Cadillac has shown it knows how to do a sedan.....now if they can just execute the same way on something a bit larger.....maybe things will start to look up.

[jlt0x]

Originally Posted by bhoppes

I don't think this is a good idea. The DTS should be the flagship and be competing with the 7 series/Lexus LS, and Mercedez S-class. Cadillac should keep the STS and make it a upper 5 series, Lexus GS, and upper Mercedez E-class. The DTS should also have the long wheelbase option. I don't think the CTS has enough luxury options to compete with the 5 series, GS, and E-class. It doesn't even have Bluetooth yet! Don't get me wrong, I love the new CTS, but it just isn't ready to compete (technology wise) with the mid-range luxury cars yet. Maybe when they have a MCR, then they can make the CTS a real midclass competitor. Now we only have to hope the BLS will be what the CTS is now.

I see your point. But I have a feeling that there is a great chance that Cadillac will build a vehicle to be the "rightful" flagship of the brand. I see the DTS/STS mash-up as another step to truely reorganize Cadillac's product line so that they can better compete with the European, Asian, and Japanese luxury brands.

We know GM isn't going to biuld the Cadillac Sixteen, but that doesn't mean plans aren't being made to build something else. With the upcoming BRX (??) small entry-luxo SUV and a possible complete redesign of the SRX, the brands line of products is really beginning to take the form of a true global luxury competitor, not just an American luxury line that only appeals to Americans.

Cadillac is attempting to apply global thinking to a global brand. Keeping the DTS because of "historic higher sales figures" sound like mid-90's thinking...which is old-school methods that allowed GM to be "left in the dust" by all the foreign makers in that same decade. The DTS should not be getting longer and longer to compete with larger more stately vehicles. GM needs to build a larger more stately luxury car.

As the CTS has gotten larger (will offer AWD & more power), there's a decreasing need for the STS. The DTS' FWD doesn't fit with the RWD luxury philosophy and detracts from the overall luxury character of the model. One model replacing both the STS & DTS is smart...as long as the flagship model (not the XLR) is on the way. A new/updated XLR should only be a halo vehicle, built only to showcase quality, technology, and power. I guess if ever a rear/mid-engined supercar was necessary, Cadillac should have one.