Cadillac replacing DTS and STS with one vehicle, entry-level model coming

[asrapid]

The rumor that the Cadillac DTS and STS will be nixed has officially been confirmed in an interview with the brand's general manager, Jim Taylor. Sales of both models are down for the year, and Taylor admits that one premium-luxury sedan will be developed to compete in the segment.

In the Automotive News interview, Taylor and his superior, Troy Clarke, GM's president of North America, also confirmed that a new entry-level model, designed to slot in below the CTS, is a distinct possibility. Both execs feel that Cadillac's brand image could sustain such a vehicle, likely to be priced in the $28,00 to $32,000 range.

No time frame was given for either new model, but Mr. Taylor also mentioned that a high-end, ultra-luxury flagship is still alive and well.

[Source: Automotive News – Sub. Req.]

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/17/c...y-level-model/

[jasaero]

I think we had pretty good info on this news already, other than the ultra lux claim. Now that would be sweet if they really do surprise everyone with an ultra lux car sooner than anyone is expecting. Not sure what alive and well means though? That mean they are still thinking about it or have they been slowly and secretly trying to do what they have to to make it happen?

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by jasaero

I think we had pretty good info on this news already, other than the ultra lux claim. Now that would be sweet if they really do surprise everyone with an ultra lux car sooner than anyone is expecting. Not sure what alive and well means though? That mean they are still thinking about it or have they been slowly and secretly trying to do what they have to to make it happen?

Maybe GM want to see how will people react with new DTS/STs and then decide if they will build any ultra lux-sedan. Is this ultra lux sedan suppose to be competition to rolls royce and bentley or is it maybe s class? Or something between?

[Bravada]

It's heeeeere...




From what I've seen, STS's sales are down in the dumpster already, and I haven't heard anything yet on the timeframe for the replacement. I don't think retooling the plant to mirror the Chinese SLS line would be too costly, so they could move the STS into the S-Class territory just about today.

It would also make sense to kill the DTS and Lucerne at that time to make room for the new Buick Park Avenue to take over from both. Well, GMI sense at least, even if not financial sense...

[Bravada]

In the Automotive News interview, Taylor and his superior, Troy Clarke, GM's president of North America, also confirmed that a new entry-level model, designed to slot in below the CTS, is a distinct possibility. Both execs feel that Cadillac's brand image could sustain such a vehicle, likely to be priced in the $28,00 to $32,000 range.

They could also be heard through the wall of the conference room frantically laughing while toasting "to the death of Saab har har har!"

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by Bravada

It's heeeeere...




From what I've seen, STS's sales are down in the dumpster already, and I haven't heard anything yet on the timeframe for the replacement. I don't think retooling the plant to mirror the Chinese SLS line would be too costly, so they could move the STS into the S-Class territory just about today.

It would also make sense to kill the DTS and Lucerne at that time to make room for the new Buick Park Avenue to take over from both. Well, GMI sense at least, even if not financial sense...

Actually, after seeing the new CTS for the first time yesterday that car isn't good enough. The CTS has a nicer interior.

[Bravada]

I beg to differ 100%. The CTS is a step forward, but in the wrong direction. The steering wheel, with the largest eraser in the world as the centre, is rather awful, and overall I agree with those who said the interior reminds them of the alien queen.

The SLS's classy touches might have been just what Cadillac lacked to break into the European market - just like the added length for the price.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by jasaero

I think we had pretty good info on this news already, other than the ultra lux claim. Now that would be sweet if they really do surprise everyone with an ultra lux car sooner than anyone is expecting

Yes, we've had info on this, but I'm glad to hear it in other places as well -- any kind of "confirmation" that cements their comitment to the entry-level and top-end luxury segment is a good one.

Originally Posted by Bravada

It's heeeeere...

I don't think retooling the plant to mirror the Chinese SLS line would be too costly, so they could move the STS into the S-Class territory just about today.

It would also make sense to kill the DTS and Lucerne at that time to make room for the new Buick Park Avenue to take over from both. Well, GMI sense at least, even if not financial sense...

I agree with this. GM already had the SLS available. I would wonder if in the short-term it wouldn't be wise to just kill the STS and DTS and bring along the SLS as the replacement. But this might be asking a bit too much from them -- though it DOES make sense. How would this go over in Europe I wonder?

I would suspect that as soon as the DTS dies, the Lucerne dies as well. This will signal the eventual move of all non-peformance RWD vehicles to the Zeta/VE platform.

I bet it won't happen for a few years.

Originally Posted by Bravada

They could also be heard through the wall of the conference room frantically laughing while toasting "to the death of Saab har har har!"

Why would you think that? Saab is going to stay exclusively FWD and AWD. The "BLS replacement" will be RWD. Two different types of vehicles with their own characteristics, no? And - plausibly - two different types of customers...

[jasaero]

The comments on bringing SLS here are good ideas, but it would only be the interior that could be moved here. The length of the SLS has hosed it's ability to pass US and probably European crash standards. I would say the interior would help, but the sales of the STS are so low, I am betting even a great interior wouldn't have helped much. The extra length might have been the key, but it would have been extremely expensive to make that car pass crash tests here, if it could have even been done at a reasonable final weight.

Really a Zeta replacement for this car and DTS makes the most sense in the long haul. So long as they make sure it is the most sophisticated incarnation of Zeta that ever exists. I would guess they will move to fancier drivetrain bits and such than any other Zeta on top of having more available features and a higher grade interior. Done correctly, I really think a premium Zeta done at a bit higher grade than the Chinese park Avenue and the Senator could make a great Cadillac to battle both larger and smaller competitors cars. I really think it should start at $45-50k and option upto ~$85k with a V at $90K. That would make it's top end version priced in the same range as base models of same sized competitors kinda like the CTS. As long as it is as good or better than the competition, who cares that it is cheaper. The price will give them volume until they can find a way to move the less wealthy buyers into Buicks. Right now I am just thinking too many DTS buyers probably wouldn't pay a lot more for a car, but also wouldn't be interested in a smaller car like the CTS or even STS. So really, this car needs to be more of a DTS replacement than an STS replacement. It's dynamics and RWD will be the only aspects that make it similar to STS. Pretty sure size, ride, and isolation will be more along the DTS or probably better.

[Bravada]

Nick, I am afraid I cannot agree with you. Audi A4 is a direct competitor for the 3er and C-Klasse, and so is the 9-3. While we may talk about two or more tiers in the executive class, the compact executive class is one. GM already shot themselves in the foot offering two cars in the segment, one of which suffers from not enough investment, and the other doesn't sell at all.

I believe Cadillac should limit themselves to what they do best and are known for - large luxury vehicles - and hone their offerings to perfection. For me, a lineup like it is today (sans BLS) is perfectly alright. I even think the "slotting between classes" thing with CTS being slightly larger than compact executives but smaller than executives, and (potentially) a shorter STS and longer SLS flanking the executive and luxury classes, might be a good idea to go around common perceptions and get away with "discount" pricing.

Saab should be the decisively European brand, also concerning markets covered, but at top-notch at that. With Opel/Saturn, as well as Pontiac and Buick, both of which I believe GM should take globally, there is little room for more "midmarket" brands within GM. Saab should build worthy BMW 1er, 3er and X3 rivals.

PS. Replying to jasero - crying over the spilled milk, if GM really wanted to make a stab at the luxury market, they could've justified the expenses into bringing SLS up to worldwide standards. I also believe the Zeta is essentially Sigma-light, or the other way around, with both platforms stemming from an originally common development programme. I was secretly hoping GM would reintegrate them (with a shortened Zeta becoming Alpha for Camaro and the smaller Pontiac) in order to realize economies of scale (of course Sigma would still carry more "content").

[derrado]

To be quite honest, that SLS interior doesn't look that great. I know, people have been extolling its virtues for ages, but it looks only incrementally better than the STS interior (I suppose the fact that it's a little more elegant/less modern contributes to that). I see fiddly buttons, plood, and an unattractive colour combination. The vents are nice, though, and somewhat mirror the SRX interior. However, it doesn't look all like it's cracked up to be.

The CTS, on the other hand, is nice...

[paul8488]

What would they call this thing? I actually really like the STS and DTS and CTS naming scheme, even if I prefer real names.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by Bravada

I beg to differ 100%. The CTS is a step forward, but in the wrong direction. The steering wheel, with the largest eraser in the world as the centre, is rather awful, and overall I agree with those who said the interior reminds them of the alien queen.

The SLS's classy touches might have been just what Cadillac lacked to break into the European market - just like the added length for the price.

Watch what happens to the STS sales - they're going to evaporate. And it's not only because of the interior.... the exterior although handsome is way too bland. It just disappears next to the CTS, which has tremendous presence. The car has been trumped badly and needs a complete redesign, not just a Chinese interior.

I haven't heard any complaints about the steering wheel other than "can't get wood yet". All I've heard are footbrake, no Bluetooth and cheesy sunroof cover.

Even the haters at TTAC had to admit they nailed the interior.

[ciciusss]

Originally Posted by Bravada

I beg to differ 100%. The CTS is a step forward, but in the wrong direction. The steering wheel, with the largest eraser in the world as the centre, is rather awful, and overall I agree with those who said the interior reminds them of the alien queen.

The SLS's classy touches might have been just what Cadillac lacked to break into the European market - just like the added length for the price.

You know your opinion of the CTS's interior puts you in a very small minority. Of course, your MO on these forums seems to be equal parts valid and intelligent insights, exaggerations and contrarian views just for the sake of taking a different position no matter how tenuous that opinion may be.

[drew770]

Since we are into the 2nd generation of the CTS, why is GM just now making these decisions?
There have been 3 Series, C-Class and an Lexus ES for years so why is GM dragging their feet?
Plus, the moment someone decided to increase the CTS size, a firm decision should have been made concerning the life or death of the STS & DTS.

GM should have been working these details out years ago!!