Cadillac replacing DTS and STS with one vehicle, entry-level model coming

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Docray1

Well, I guess Mr Lutz is now confirming what we already have known: the Zeta II DT7 is dead and there are no plans for a DTS/STS replacement on the near-term horizon.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac...o-pasture.html

I can't see that, this DTS/STS is old now. After 2010 it will just be a joke. Either GM will need to a do a major redesign on the current DTS/STS or push forward the next generation.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

I can't see that, this DTS/STS is old now. After 2010 it will just be a joke. Either GM will need to a do a major redesign on the current DTS/STS or push forward the next generation.

Keep in mind that the STS/DTS are "separate" cars now... The DTS rides on a FWD platform that dates back to 1992.. The STS rides on a RWD/AWD platform that dates back to 2005... Both cars are a joke NOW.... The STS will sell less then 18,000 cars this year with number that trend to sub 10,000 number by 2010.. GM doesn't need to kill the car... The customers are doing that all on their own. The DTS out sells the STS by about 4 to 1 but mostly to drivers in their 90's and to Rental car agencies.

BOTH of these car are DRAGGING Cadillac down... They are doing NOTHING for Cadillac's image. And they need to be fixed NOW.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by megeebee

?

I'm curious. What does the STS have that the CTS needs? I was under the impression you weren't at all a fan of the STS.

I'm not a fan of the STS.
I like the CTS, but I would like it to have the features of the STS before I consider it as my next car.

STS has features/options like:
-- Magnetic Ride Control
-- Adaptive Cruise Control
-- Tuscany Full leather seats
-- Leather wrapped interior
-- Heated steering wheel
-- Blind Zone Alert
-- Lane Departure Warning
-- 4 color HUD
-- 5.1 Digital Audio
-- Push button start
-- 4-channel Stabilitrak
-- Headrest DVD screens

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Keep in mind that the STS/DTS are "separate" cars now... The DTS rides on a FWD platform that dates back to 1992.. The STS rides on a RWD/AWD platform that dates back to 2005... Both cars are a joke NOW.... The STS will sell less then 18,000 cars this year with number that trend to sub 10,000 number by 2010.. GM doesn't need to kill the car... The customers are doing that all on their own. The DTS out sells the STS by about 4 to 1 but mostly to drivers in their 90's and to Rental car agencies.

BOTH of these car are DRAGGING Cadillac down... They are doing NOTHING for Cadillac's image. And they need to be fixed NOW.

I am surprised the DTS is that old, I knew it was old but damn. I still don't see how they can cancel the next generation platform, if the sales are dropping like that they need to spend the money to get the next generation out now.

[rudebwoyjohn]

What Caddilac needs is a good motor and interior to the STS... to compete in the executive class... STS won't sell because of the out dated northstar v8.. sure gase prices are high but IT LUXURIOUS... sell it at the premium level and stop sitting on your hand's GM... put an all exclusive DI v8 in the STS or SLS and watch cars fly off the lots..

[jry]

Originally Posted by rudebwoyjohn

What Caddilac needs is a good motor and interior to the STS... to compete in the executive class... STS won't sell because of the out dated northstar v8.. sure gase prices are high but IT LUXURIOUS... sell it at the premium level and stop sitting on your hand's GM... put an all exclusive DI v8 in the STS or SLS and watch cars fly off the lots..

The DI 6 is good enough.
Since the engineering costs are amortized out, drop the price 7 or 8K and watch them fly out.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by rudebwoyjohn

What Caddilac needs is a good motor and interior to the STS... to compete in the executive class... STS won't sell because of the out dated northstar v8.. sure gase prices are high but IT LUXURIOUS... sell it at the premium level and stop sitting on your hand's GM... put an all exclusive DI v8 in the STS or SLS and watch cars fly off the lots..

The STS has four problems
1) The interior, here is a big hint... your flagship car should have the nicest interior of any car you make... The STS's interior is outclassed by the new Malibu. Nice..
2) The exterior, here is a big hint... your big AMERICAN car should look like an AMERICAN car... NOT a odd looking boxy attempt to look European. At best it is "Bland" at worse it is "Ugly"... I know it, you know it too.
3) The Engine... 315HP out of a 32V V8 doesn't even get you in the game. You need a 375HP engine as a base line. Fix the motor. And the big one
4) No one at GM is willing to spend one cent to fix these problems.

We have GM staff saying not to worry new cars are a'comin... A CTS coupe... that's not a big car and a CTS wagon that will sell in lower numbers then the XLR... Why waist the effort on some goofy wagon that everyone knows will not sell when we could fix the STS.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

I am surprised the DTS is that old, I knew it was old but damn. I still don't see how they can cancel the next generation platform, if the sales are dropping like that they need to spend the money to get the next generation out now.

Actually, 2002caddy is not entirely correct. The current DTS is one of the last remnants of what GM calls the "G" body. It dates from a time before the use of the word "platform". The G body debuted in the fall of 1994 as the 1995 Oldsmobile Aurora and Buick Riviera. After that, it was used as the basis for the 1997 Buick Park Avenue, the 1998 Cadillac Seville, the 2000 Buick LeSabre and Cadillac DeVille, then the 2006 Buick Lucerne. So it dates from MY 1995, 1998 as a Cadillac, and 2000 as the Cadillac Deville which became the present day DTS.

But that still makes it pretty old.

[Rotorocket]

If the OP is the real DTS replacement, and sells for less than 30k with leather and some goodies like Nav, and most importantly - has a plush, Caddy ride coupled with a titanium-rigid chassis - it'll be a home run, IMO.

Not everyone wants euro spec suspensions when they live in areas with moon cratered roads.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Actually, 2002caddy is not entirely correct. The current DTS is one of the last remnants of what GM calls the "G" body. It dates from a time before the use of the word "platform". The G body debuted in the fall of 1994 as the 1995 Oldsmobile Aurora and Buick Riviera. After that, it was used as the basis for the 1997 Buick Park Avenue, the 1998 Cadillac Seville, the 2000 Buick LeSabre and Cadillac DeVille, then the 2006 Buick Lucerne. So it dates from MY 1995, 1998 as a Cadillac, and 2000 as the Cadillac Deville which became the present day DTS.

But that still makes it pretty old.

If GM kept the platform around so long they must of made some serious updates to it over the past 15 years. I am not saying it was right, but it can't be the exact platform as it was 15 years ago.

[nferr]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

If GM kept the platform around so long they must of made some serious updates to it over the past 15 years. I am not saying it was right, but it can't be the exact platform as it was 15 years ago.

I don't know. I've had a newer DTS rental and I've driven Aurora's and Bonnevilles and they feel pretty similar. The basic platform is the same, with the huge doors, dash, etc. It was a good FWD platform for it's day. It's ancient now though when you put it up against any good luxury car platform. I had a 94 STS and I liked that platform better than the "G" for it's sporty feel. It vibrated more, wasn't as solid, but it was lighter. I drove a 98 STS and I liked it but it felt less sporty than my 94.

[Dr. Show-Me]

Bob Lutz's statement was a major non-information generalization that did not deny that Cadillac is replacing the DTS/STS with a new model. If you read between the lines, it's coming because they need a flagship, while the trend is to smaller vehicles otherwise. A flagship is the company's finest. If the CTS is the company's finest, then Cadillac is not a luxury brand. We should quit saying "It's the Cadillac of...." but rather, it's the Mercedes-Benz of or Lexus of, of Rolls of. Bob Lutz clearly did not deny a new flagship

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by nferr

I don't know. I've had a newer DTS rental and I've driven Aurora's and Bonnevilles and they feel pretty similar. The basic platform is the same, with the huge doors, dash, etc. It was a good FWD platform for it's day. It's ancient now though when you put it up against any good luxury car platform. I had a 94 STS and I liked that platform better than the "G" for it's sporty feel. It vibrated more, wasn't as solid, but it was lighter. I drove a 98 STS and I liked it but it felt less sporty than my 94.

Really? I expected more. However, they had to make upgrades somewhere for the car to be able to support all the new luxury items of today.

[JerryL]

If you need something large as a daily driver.....the DTS is one hell of a bargain as a used car if it is under the warranty. You could do a lot worse.

[PAULSTS1]

This thread is older than sin, but the fact remains, the DTS is still recognized as a real Cadillac! Yes, the chasis is old, and even some of the newer FWD cars, like the Acura TL 2009 drive better than the 2008 DTS, but that is GM managements fault, poor planning. The DTS should have been replaced Fall 2007 with a new 2008 model. It would have been ok to have it FWD, with an AWD option. That way the same chasis coulld have been used for a V6 or a V8! Rude Caddy 2002, said that the DTS is sold to "90 year olds and Rental Fleets." Well my 36 year old son and his wife have one, along with their BMW 3 Series convertible, and Acura SUV (don't remember the model name). The DTS is definitely not my style of a car, but I have rented one, and it served it's designed purposes without issue.

I used to complain about my 2006 STS, with the upcoming 2009 Lincoln MKS Ecoboost, I am sure I will be satisfied! However, that will do nothing for GM's coffers! Soldiering on old, or slow sellers, just makes the Cadillac Brand, obsolete or second tier. And for the record: I agree the CTS Coupe (of which I love the design) and the CTS Wagon (love the design, has no value to me) will not an entire Brand revitalize. Cadillac has to do something pronto. I recommend that GM, consider Selling Cadillac to another company, that will invest, and bring out the best for customers.