Cadillac CTS & Holden Commodore: What's The Difference?

[YupYupYup]

So the American 'eye' has come to view massive grilles as being beautiful. The rest of the world does not see that beauty;

Really? Audi grilles??? Porsche Cayenne SUVs? Large VW badges like the ones found on Cadillacs????

I remeber somebody once said no one would ever listen to that aweful American rap music...Check the music sales and music company profits if you ever shared that doubt.

[paul8488]

If the Holden is less expressively styled than the CTS, is it maybe not because that's what the Australian market wants? The Commodore managed to outsell the cheap little Corolla most months last year (not sure about totals for the year)... that's not a fluke. I love the CTS and would personally prefer it to the Commodore... but to say that Cadillac is better than Holden is silly. If Australians want Cadillac styling why are most of their cars more simple and subdued (design-wise)? The market dictates... and in Australia it seems to me that the emphasis is on performance and driving dynamics... and that they want that in a tasteful and stylish but not over-the-top wrapper.

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by Ssom

The fact that you mentioned Cadillac and class in the same sentence shows just how different US tastes are from the rest of the world.

The Cadillac CTS is waiting in the wings to pick up where the 300C left off.

So I am sure that Donna Karan, Hugo Boss (see designers), Todd Oldham, Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger, Nike, Reebok and their "American style" are so hated around the world. Last time I checked they do more business outside the U.S. than in the U.S. Chinese kids wearing Calvin Klein and Nike basketball shoes...British stars wearing Donna Karan...Business people around the world chose Boss suits...Tommy Hilfiger is worn by many youth in many countries...So "different" in taste? These brands are all very American in style, but do quite well overseas...Hollywood movies and music many times sell more per capita overseas than in the U.S. I know Canadians (live here) go to see more Hollywood movies than Americans every year but judging from the Canadian press you would think American movies were disdained...Reality is sometimes different than rhetoric.

By the way, I agree not all things designed in the "American eye" are accepted around the world. But I also know that many things designed in Europe or South America would never fly in the U.S. too...Different people have different perceptions. I wouldn't force you to like the CTS, but I wouldn't also overly generalize about American tastes versus "the world." Americans sell a lot of things overseas that are very "American"...

[Ssom]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

So the American 'eye' has come to view massive grilles as being beautiful. The rest of the world does not see that beauty;

Really? Audi grilles??? Porsche Cayenne SUVs? Large VW badges like the ones found on Cadillacs????

I remeber somebody once said no one would ever listen to that aweful American rap music...Check the music sales and music company profits if you ever shared that doubt.

Those types of brain dead 16 year olds that listen to rap are the same people who can't afford a CTS. Angular lines and big grilles never go down well here, look at our top selling cars, they all have smooth, subtle lines. The CTS is simply to crass to woo anyone who hasn't previously owned a 300C. I can tell you now that this car won't get people out of Audi/Benz/Lexus/BMW.

EDIT: Hugo Boss is German...

[MonaroSS]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

So the American 'eye' has come to view massive grilles as being beautiful. The rest of the world does not see that beauty;

Really? Audi grilles??? Porsche Cayenne SUVs? Large VW badges like the ones found on Cadillacs????

I remember somebody once said no one would ever listen to that awful American rap music...Check the music sales and music company profits if you ever shared that doubt.

I was just explaining a simple truth, that we have different tastes. BTW the Audi and Cayenne grilles are catering to US taste as their prime export market.

To us the Cadillac would look better with a smaller grille. We see the current one like seeing a big nose on Jessica Alba. Well, perhaps not a good example as most guys on this forum would still hit that....

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by paul8488

If the Holden is less expressively styled than the CTS, is it maybe not because that's what the Australian market wants? The Commodore managed to outsell the cheap little Corolla most months last year (not sure about totals for the year)... that's not a fluke. I love the CTS and would personally prefer it to the Commodore... but to say that Cadillac is better than Holden is silly. If Australians want Cadillac styling why are most of their cars more simple and subdued (design-wise)? The market dictates... and in Australia it seems to me that the emphasis is on performance and driving dynamics... and that they want that in a tasteful and stylish but not over-the-top wrapper.

I actually agree with you...I was more saying that the quality in materials and design was more upscale and should be given where the brands stand...But I do understand if someone prefers the Holden. I said it was a fine car too. And to each his own. Where I disagree is where people say the "American design eye" is someone opposite of the "rest of the world." Just look at the world's top brands and business, and you would quickly correct that statement.

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by Ssom

Those types of brain dead 16 year olds that listen to rap are the same people who can't afford a CTS. Angular lines and big grilles never go down well here, look at our top selling cars, they all have smooth, subtle lines. The CTS is simply to crass to woo anyone who hasn't previously owned a 300C. I can tell you now that this car won't get people out of Audi/Benz/Lexus/BMW.

EDIT: Hugo Boss is German...

Hugo Boss...Read carefully what I wrote in parantheses...

"Brain dead" rap lovers??? There are a lot in Asian, Australia, and even Europe. And if you have ever seen a rap video, they are full of Cadillacs...Just like the ones Tom Cruise (not someone I am fond of ) and the rest of the stars ride in...

As for being sure noone would like the CTS elsewhere? Well, I remember people use to laugh at the boring, cramped Japanese cars and how no one would buy them in the U.S. Or BMWs and their ridiculuous prices...Now BMWs are designed and made in the U.S. (Z3 and SUV). The SUV, with its American roots, has been a hit in many countries...

But if you do not like the CTS, cool....I have no problem with that...What I do have a problem with is people generalizing something as individual as taste..."We Australians" is a bit of a generalization...Not all Americans like the CTS either, otherwise everyone wouldn't buy it. There will be people in Australia who like it and its performance/ refinement...So "we" is a bit to broad...

[Ssom]

I am pretty damn certain that the 300C has no real appeal outside of America, it's not the concept that won't work, but rather the execution. Honestly, as I've mentioned twice already, the 300C is a good indication of where the CTS is going.

At first there might be a gaggle of must haves who see it as an "Up yours establishment" machine, but once they get theirs, the demand drops off to a few cars a month.

[BBDOS CV8]

Of course American $$$ feeds the popuilar culture industry. America is bigger in population and richer than anyone else. It can foist it's crap on the world ad infinitum.

But a lot of that culture is McDonalds-like. Not good just plentiful. Some of course is world class. So is some Australian contribution. Like many of 'your' film stars at present - who are Australians. Along with directors, writers, cameramen etc.

The Holden Commodore is our middle of the road car. Considering the entire budget for the whole car ($US600M at the time) and the mutiple models that produced, it is an achievement. The whole VE Commodore program probbly cost less than the current BMW V8 - and one part of it knocked off the current BMW V8 in a recent comparo.

The single CTS program probbly cost more than the entire Commy program.

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by Ssom

I am pretty damn certain that the 300C has no real appeal outside of America, it's not the concept that won't work, but rather the execution. Honestly, as I've mentioned twice already, the 300C is a good indication of where the CTS is going.

At first there might be a gaggle of must haves who see it as an "Up yours establishment" machine, but once they get theirs, the demand drops off to a few cars a month.

I am not talking about the 300C. This is a very American in-your-face car for only America, but actually designed when the GERMANS directed the company....And the execution was poor...

The "up yours eastablishment" bought Hondas in America in the early 70s...

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

Of course American $$$ feeds the popuilar culture industry. America is bigger in population and richer than anyone else. It can foist it's crap on the world ad infinitum.

But a lot of that culture is McDonalds-like. Not good just plentiful. Some of course is world class. So is some Australian contribution. Like many of 'your' film stars at present - who are Australians. Along with directors, writers, cameramen etc.

The Holden Commodore is our middle of the road car. Considering the entire budget for the whole car ($US600M at the time) and the mutiple models that produced, it is an achievement. The whole VE Commodore program probbly cost less than the current BMW V8 - and one part of it knocked off the current BMW V8 in a recent comparo.

The single CTS program probbly cost more than the entire Commy program.

Ah, but how did America become so rich??? Because it was so successful with its industry and brands, and still is, around the world (trade)...Other countries haven't faired so well...

Population has grown because America is a popular place to live, albeit all the emotional rheotric/ propoganada you hear around the world...Why else would people risk their lives and move thousands of miles to a country when everyone "hates it." Great American brands helped it become rich by selling around the world...

I agree that there was less development dollars (never said it was a bad car either). But the reality is Holden would not be around if it wasn't for it being owned by GM...Holden is an American-owned company under the direction and financial control of GM of America. That's reality, just like Lexus is Toyota...By the way, did you know that Lexus is primarily designed int he U.S. by mostly American engineers...Kind of softens that "American eye in design" talk a little...

I LIKE HOLDEN/ GM...I LIKE THE COMM...I LIKE Cadillac...Can't the two likes live side-by-side???

GOODNIGHT...Darn late here! Have a great day Aussie...I think we are okay liking each other...

[JoeT]

I knew posting this article would open a can of worms, but let's keep it civil and on subject please.

[Ssom]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

I am not talking about the 300C. This is a very American in-your-face car for only America, but actually designed when the GERMANS directed the company....And the execution was poor...

The "up yours eastablishment" bought Hondas in America in the early 70s...

Because Hondas offered reliability and cheap running in the face of the fuel crisis and the American alternatives were truly awful (Pacer, Pinto or Vega anyone?). The problem is that the German cars, like the Lexus are excellent and the Calais/Orion Fairmont have the cheap luxury car market (Which is very small) covered, as well as offering more space than the CTS.

[MonaroSS]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

As for being sure no-one would like the CTS elsewhere? Well, I remember people use to laugh at the boring, cramped Japanese cars and how no one would buy them in the U.S. Or BMWs and their ridiculous prices...Now BMWs are designed and made in the U.S. (Z3 and SUV). The SUV, with its American roots, has been a hit in many countries...

The reason the Japanese have done so well in the US is because they adapted their design to more appeal to the American taste. If GM were to do that, to adapt to the tastes of Europe and Australia, then they might down size the Caddy grilles a bit like below. But then Americans wouldn't like it as much.

[Aych Es Vee]

The Commodore is actually said to have the most comfortable GM seats available.....

The CTS is likely to start from the AU$70,000 mark.


For those not in the know, that is HSV Senator territory.
IE: this




Now seriously. Theres no way in hell you can tell me that this is so much inferior to a CTS V6. It even has Magnetic Ride Control also (which I think is an option on the CTS?)

The price premium that the CTS will have over the Commodore is needed yes, just for the sake of saying 'Hey Australia, this is a luxury vehicle', but imo, it certainly wont be WORTH the premium it has over its Commodore counterparts.