Cadillac CTS & Holden Commodore: What's The Difference?

[MonaroSS]

Originally Posted by AndrewGS

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/23/c...es-out-on-top/

Well it 'look's like a Cadillac. But it's a carbon fibre body chopped though and lowered over the platform and the engine is moved back 10 inches and down 4 inches. And yes I know the Aussie V8 Supercars are not production cars either, but Holden Commodore production cars have won thousands of races and still win races and rallies.

Has any production Caddy ever won a race?

[YupYupYup]

No offense, but the Holden is GM and GM is American. I like the Aussie spirit for cars, but you must be objective in the end. Both cars are good, but the Caddy is much classier. Take a look at the pics of the interiors and you will see...The Holden is more pedestrian, nice, but in its price/ design class. The Caddy has been getting phenomenal review from even the most ardent, anti-American car reviewers. That says something...

It really is that good. You will see when it arrives. Nothing at its price point compares...

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

Well it 'look's like a Cadillac. But it's a carbon fibre body chopped though and lowered over the platform and the engine is moved back 10 inches and down 4 inches. And yes I know the Aussie V8 Supercars are not production cars either, but Holden Commodore production cars have won thousands of races and still win races and rallies.

Has any production Caddy ever won a race?

Audi has raced and won a lot withLMPs, which are noways close to REAL cars, but they still get the accolades and attention from them.

Caddy races with Porsche, BMS, etc....These names have built their racing hertiage/ credibility on the exact same cars that Caddy races...What you are seeing in Caddies now is from their racing experience. See CTS-V, for example. I don't think their is a Holden that can match its performance and interior design/ comfort...

As far as Holden titles, where are they raced. Honestly, Australian racing is the equivalent of racing in one average state in the U.S. (population and tracks). There are just so many more classes/ tracks to race here and for Caddy, and the rest of GM, to spread its resources. Holdens ARE good...They are from GM. But the past is the past...Caddy is winning and pouring excellent design resources into its cars...And it is NOW showing.

[Robert Ryan]

s far as Holden titles, where are they raced. Honestly, Australian racing is the equivalent of racing in one average state in the U.S. (population and tracks). There are just so many more classes/ tracks to race here and for Caddy, and the rest of GM, to spread its resources. Holdens ARE good...They are from GM. But the past is the past...Caddy is winning and pouring excellent design resources into its cars...And it is NOW showing.

Good Grief, another I do not what is on the other side of the World/Or someone very young,by the writing a young teenager.

[TKR]

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

That was probably the second most ignorant post I've read all day, the first being someone talking about "RL and style" in the same sentence

No, your 1st post was designed to get the Holden fans riled up and I would say that was pretty ignorant. You were always going to start an argument there buddy.

Anyhow, the CTS will be marketed to different buyers which is how Lexus survives. Comparing VE Commodore against the CTS is just dumb (besides which, I will still be able to buy a V8 Commodore).

[Robert Ryan]

Anyhow, the CTS will be marketed to different buyers which is how Lexus survives. Comparing VE Commodore against the CTS is just dumb (besides which, I will still be able to buy a V8 Commodore).

If they sell for $40,000 in the Middle East, they either ripping them off(trading on the name) or vastly overpriced for what they get for the money. Thankfully that writer has pointed out the dilemma with this car. Do you buy a Holden or the CTS with almost identical physical characteristics for a lot more money?

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

Wow, you can really see how much more modern the CTS is in exterior design...And the interior is also much better. Sorry, but I think the writer is a little bit worried the "homegrown"/ GM subsidary might be outshined by the new American entry.

That is in the eye of the beholder. And Australians I've shown a piicture of the Caddy to think it's..........'interesting'. As in, 'I'll look at in in the motor show but wouldn't be seen dead in it'.

That big mass of chromed plastic up front that to Ameicans spells 'class' to us spells 'cheese'. Even the modest by comparison Mercedes C-class grille is seen as over the top The rear door openings are amongst the most peculiar I've ever seen - triangular. Australians are big fans of form - after function. I'm tipping it will be as steep a learing curve for Cadillac here as it is in Europe.


In a few month's time the VE Calais will have the same motor/trans as the CTS. And it'll still be $32-$25K cheaper. Except then it'll be the VF and have the 'real VF' styling and extra content.

I intend to check a Cadillac out as soon as they're available. But US guys will have to come here to check out a Calais-V - sorry guys, the G8 which is between an SS and an SS-V in interior spec is nice, but not the top trim available in a Holden. And while the CTS compares well to the Germans in reviews, so does the Calais-V.

I eagerly look forward to the inevitable comparison tests......

[TKR]

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

Cadillac CTS & Pontiac G8: Whats the Difference?

I would infer VERY VERY VERY few people would purchase a G8 over a CTS, only if they want a slightly larger car for a lower price/styling preferance. This applies in the USA obviously, but you could extrapolate and apply it in Oz too!

By the time the CTS gets to Australia and NZ, it will most likely cost $20k more than a Calais V6. It is a well specced car and looks very good but it can only compete in the luxury market. The Commodore will still be required to pick up it's historical market.

[Robert Ryan]

That is in the eye of the beholder. And Australians I've shown a piicture of the Caddy to think it's..........'interesting'. As in, 'I'll look at in in the motor show but wouldn't be seen dead in it'.

i have seen two in the US and there is this "Nissanish" look about them. If you love the way Nissan Infinity looks you will love the CTS.


The Nissan style

[MonaroSS]

I know our American friends won't like to hear this, but they live in a different world to the rest of us humans. And a consequence of that is that they have fashion and design and food tastes that the rest of the world doesn’t share.

The Cadillac Art & Science look is one such fashion that the rest of the world doesn't get. Firstly it is all 'Art' and no 'Science' because those sharp lines, which are actually a throw back to the bad old days of Cadillac in the mid 70's, are not aerodynamic. Rounded, like the Commodore, will get better mpg. That is real science. Art is in the eye of the beholder, and what Americans behold every day, which the rest of the world does not, are big SUV's and Pick-up Trucks with big ole massive grilles.

So the American 'eye' has come to view massive grilles as being beautiful. The rest of the world does not see that beauty; they just see a truck grille. Now go look at the grille above on the Holden and the Cadillac and tell me which one has a massive grille. Not only is it massive but, to make it look even more truck like, they extend it below the bumper. To you Americans that makes it look even better. To the rest of the world it makes it look more truckish.

And look at the high waistline of the Cadillac above. You Americans are used to it as the low 'Gangster' roofline is a fashion norm in the US, but in Australia and Europe it is seen as better to have good vision through large windows that give great all 'round view. To our eyes the Cadillac looks like a big man wearing a small hat.

If you don't believe we can honestly hold a different value and taste for car design and car fashion then just ask yourself how come Americans don't like so many foreign car designs (not the ones designed for the US like BMW, Benz etc) like Renaults and Citroens and Fiats and Seats and Lancia etc. The answer is because you have a different value set for what you believe is beautiful. Australians and Europeans in particular find simple, elegant and efficient a very beautiful thing. To us it’s like the timeless little black dress. No need to cover something in lots of tacky fashion if the engineering underneath is already delightfully elegant.

[YupYupYup]

Just for reference.

Sorry, could not load other pics of interior.

[Mikkoo]

Originally Posted by TKR

No, your 1st post was designed to get the Holden fans riled up and I would say that was pretty ignorant. You were always going to start an argument there buddy.

Anyhow, the CTS will be marketed to different buyers which is how Lexus survives. Comparing VE Commodore against the CTS is just dumb (besides which, I will still be able to buy a V8 Commodore).

And isn't is good that there is a certain amount of pride in products our countries produce.
That being said, they of course reach very different buyer groups. I like the in your face
bold styling statement that the CTS makes. Others might prefer the understated looks of
the Commodore.

I will admit that the CTS has a huge uphill battle in Australia and NZ. If Europe tells you one thing, it's that Cadillac has been a very small player in their luxury market.

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by Mikkoo

And isn't is good that there is a certain amount of pride in products our countries produce.
That being said, they of course reach very different buyer groups. I like the in your face
bold styling statement that the CTS makes. Others might prefer the understated looks of
the Commodore.

I will admit that the CTS has a huge uphill battle in Australia and NZ. If Europe tells you one thing, it's that Cadillac has been a very small player in their luxury market.

And for good reason...Caddilac did not have the cars to compete...The CTS can, but Europeans are always a little protectionist, not pragmatic...Especially when it comes to soemething American. Can't really change that...But the CTS is still better for the price than any other Euro offering...

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

I know our American friends won't like to hear this, but they live in a different world to the rest of us humans. And a consequence of that is that they have fashion and design and food tastes that the rest of the world doesn’t share.

The Cadillac Art & Science look is one such fashion that the rest of the world doesn't get. Firstly it is all 'Art' and no 'Science' because those sharp lines, which are actually a throw back to the bad old days of Cadillac in the mid 70's, are not aerodynamic. Rounded, like the Commodore, will get better mpg. That is real science. Art is in the eye of the beholder, and what Americans behold every day, which the rest of the world does not, are big SUV's and Pick-up Trucks with big ole massive grilles.

So the American 'eye' has come to view massive grilles as being beautiful. The rest of the world does not see that beauty; they just see a truck grille. Now go look at the grille above on the Holden and the Cadillac and tell me which one has a massive grille. Not only is it massive but, to make it look even more truck like, they extend it below the bumper. To you Americans that makes it look even better. To the rest of the world it makes it look more truckish.

And look at the high waistline of the Cadillac above. You Americans are used to it as the low 'Gangster' roofline is a fashion norm in the US, but in Australia and Europe it is seen as better to have good vision through large windows that give great all 'round view. To our eyes the Cadillac looks like a big man wearing a small hat.

If you don't believe we can honestly hold a different value and taste for car design and car fashion then just ask yourself how come Americans don't like so many foreign car designs (not the ones designed for the US like BMW, Benz etc) like Renaults and Citroens and Fiats and Seats and Lancia etc. The answer is because you have a different value set for what you believe is beautiful. Australians and Europeans in particular find simple, elegant and efficient a very beautiful thing. To us it’s like the timeless little black dress. No need to cover something in lots of tacky fashion if the engineering underneath is already delightfully elegant.

Wow, a very simple, insecure and rhetorical response to something which was not that complicated or dramatic in comment.

As far as influence, America has influenced the world more than any other country in the last 100 years, good or bad...Technology, business, Hollywood/ pop culture (not a big fan myself), music (Jazz, Blues, Rock 'n Roll, Hip Hop/ Rap and the fashions that go with it...What is Australian music? Check the Aussie charts)...Australia isn't doesn't lead the world in anything or define, at least not in the manner Euroipe or the rest of Asia do (not that this matters completely(...Honestly, my Asian friends who live in Asia feel Australia is just a smaller America when they visit. You might not want to hear that, but that is their opinion. I know Australia is a nice country, but where does it stand out in fashion, technology or design compared to Europe, Japan, or the U.S.? This is not a sarcastic question, but an honest one. When I think of Australia I do not see it being drastically different in fashion or design taste than Europeans or America...It actually reminds me of a mix between the two, with a little bit more of the American independent spirit and newness...

Just a last thought: Rome never shared anything with the rest of the world during its time...We all know the place Rome haa in history...Most can't name another country not affected by Rome during that time...

[Ssom]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

No offense, but the Holden is GM and GM is American. I like the Aussie spirit for cars, but you must be objective in the end. Both cars are good, but the Caddy is much classier. Take a look at the pics of the interiors and you will see...The Holden is more pedestrian, nice, but in its price/ design class. The Caddy has been getting phenomenal review from even the most ardent, anti-American car reviewers. That says something...

It really is that good. You will see when it arrives. Nothing at its price point compares...

The fact that you mentioned Cadillac and class in the same sentence shows just how different US tastes are from the rest of the world.

The Cadillac CTS is waiting in the wings to pick up where the 300C left off. I'll take a Passat R36 for the price Cadillac is pitching.