Cadillac CTS: An Aussie Review

[roteague]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

Actually the HFV6 was designed in America by an international team including Opel and Holden engineers. It might be galling to US citizens, but Holden actually does an enormous amount of development work for GM worldwide including emissions and performance development for 49 states. Because it can, and it does so efficiently and without fuss.

I have no problem with Holden. It is an excellent company and a GREAT asset to GM.

[Robert Ryan]

I have no problem with Holden. It is an excellent company and a GREAT asset to GM.

Let us hope beancounters in the US think that way.

[rotaryfan]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Let us hope beancounters in the US think that way.

Lately it seems like GM hasn't given in to its beancounters.. look at the CT-S and Camaro coming out.

[BBDOS CV8]

Here's the nightmare scenario:

Somewhere in the bowels of GM GHQ late 2011, Fulton J Filibuster III, GM Division Manager for That Convict Joint and the Yellow Hordes bellows for his chief flunky: ‘Forkowitz, get in here with those Asia-Pac sales figures’

“Y-yessir’.
‘Why are we selling only 100 CTS a month in Australia – didn’t we drop the price nearly 10,000 Pacific Pesos?’
“Y-yessir’.
‘Well., why don’t those Ass-traylians want ‘em? Why is there an airport-size parking lot full of our shiny new babies?’
‘W-well, we did some market reseatch.’
‘And?’
‘Well, after Dearborn shut down the local Falcon and Territory and imported Taurus and Escape, the former Ford buyers bent over and said we could kiss them on their little Blue Oval before they’d buy anything American’
‘What about the krautcar fans?’
‘Well, BMW, Mercedes and Audi buyers giggled and said when Satan starts selling ski goggles, they’ll consider GM products – and they want President Clinton to wear lederhosen and spank Bill's bare ass live on stage with a C-Klasse fanbelt’.
‘Kinky ba$tards. Could we organise that I wonder - no scratch that. Lexus?’
‘Japanese luxury car buyers started waving their katanas, shouted “Banzai” and “remember Iwo Jimo” and we never saw the doorknockers again.’
‘So how can we improve sales?’
“Well, we noticed that Holden is still selling 1000-1400 Calais a month’.
“Who own Holden, the Sicillians?’
‘No sir, we do.’
‘Oh yeah, that's right. Didn't we stop them selling the Calais already?’
‘No sir, that was the Caprice, along with the Statesman. Holden don't make the limo-size cars anymore'.
'Did that help us?'
'Not really - we sold 25 extra CTS, Holden lost 500 sales per month'.
'Can't make omelettes without breaking eggs. Oh yeah, that Reuss guy's in charge. I remember - I blocked his entry to the GM Country Club.'
'No sir, Mark Reuss is in charge of Zeta Trucks and SUVs in Oshawa for the US – they’re going gangbusters. It’s the Korean Lim guy from Daewoo’.
‘What the hey – we’re giving those guys GM divisions to manage? Haven’t we got any good ol’ boys left? What is the world coming to! And I don't like you using the 'N' word’
‘Well, actually sir, he’s doing very well, held the line in a difficult market….’
‘Get him on the blower and tell him to stop making goddamn Calais – we can’t have the quarterback taken out by our own defense!’

12 months later and the new AsiaPac V-P ‘Hurricane’ Katrina Slashburn (former head of Feminine Side Integration) is conferring with her PA, Cynthia Sweetmouth.
‘Pookie, bring me the latest GM Premium sales figures for Downunder. Hmmm, still only 200 CTS a month. Didn’t we drop the price to $50,000?’
‘Yes, and included the Krusty Ultra Clown Pack with Folding Fries tray. For some reason there is buyer resistance’
‘Bring me the Holden figures’
‘They’re not doing so good – with the new Toyota RWD sedan and coupe, coupled with Hyundai and Kia selling the RWD cars at a price cut they lost leadership of their market. Without the lux cars they used to make they don’t have the budget to update and their cars are slipping behind the competition. Plus we lost them another 15% when we stopped them selling Berlinas after market research told us people preferred a $40K Holden to a $60K CTS.’

‘Well, they’re obviously in decline anyway - why postpone the inevitable? Might as well shut the doors to the factory and send a shipload of the new Impala and Malibu over there. We can save money on Lion and Globe stationary by selling as Chevs. That way we’ve just increased US exports, and stopped our own divisions blocking “The Great Waggoner Train.” ’

‘But …but…our research shows Australian GM buyers overwhelmingly prefer RWD large cars made there, and there is growing resentment at outside interference to their own brands from America. There were near-riots when we shut HSV down so they wouldn't compete with the CTS-V and Corvette, after we got the laws changed so LHD cars could be imported’

‘Goddamn it Cynthia, those people just don’t know what’s good for them. They’ll buy them and like them – get that pinko bitch Australian PM on the line and tell her we’ll unelect her if she doesn’t toe the line’.

‘Err, Katy, we can’t do that. We don’t elect Australian Prime Ministers anymore – the Chinese own the Pink Slip now;
‘Goddamn it!’

[mmciau]

BBDOS CV8

Oh so close to the mark. Please keep a copy of your post so that we can all reminisce in early 2012 on just how accurate you are in your post

Mike McInerney
Marion, South Australia

[JoeT]

I hope Bob Lutz see's that post. I have saved it to my hard drive.

[Phoenix]

Someone post the Homer-mobile and we're good to go.

[JoeT]

My 'ol favourite American BAS beast. It may do well in the states, but not down here.

[RedVee8]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

Here's the nightmare scenario:

Somewhere in the bowels of GM GHQ late 2011, Fulton J Filibuster III, GM Division Manager for That Convict Joint and the Yellow Hordes bellows for his chief flunky: ‘Forkowitz, get in here with those Asia-Pac sales figures’

“Y-yessir’.
‘Why are we selling only 100 CTS a month in Australia – didn’t we drop the price nearly 10,000 Pacific Pesos?’
“Y-yessir’.
‘Well., why don’t those Ass-traylians want ‘em? Why is there an airport-size parking lot full of our shiny new babies?’
‘W-well, we did some market reseatch.’
‘And?’
‘Well, after Dearborn shut down the local Falcon and Territory and imported Taurus and Escape, the former Ford buyers bent over and said we could kiss them on their little Blue Oval before they’d buy anything American’
‘What about the krautcar fans?’
‘Well, BMW, Mercedes and Audi buyers giggled and said when Satan starts selling ski goggles, they’ll consider GM products – and they want President Clinton to wear lederhosen and spank Bill's bare ass live on stage with a C-Klasse fanbelt’.
‘Kinky ba$tards. Could we organise that I wonder - no scratch that. Lexus?’
‘Japanese luxury car buyers started waving their katanas, shouted “Banzai” and “remember Iwo Jimo” and we never saw the doorknockers again.’
‘So how can we improve sales?’
“Well, we noticed that Holden is still selling 1000-1400 Calais a month’.
“Who own Holden, the Sicillians?’
‘No sir, we do.’
‘Oh yeah, that's right. Didn't we stop them selling the Calais already?’
‘No sir, that was the Caprice, along with the Statesman. Holden don't make the limo-size cars anymore'.
'Did that help us?'
'Not really - we sold 25 extra CTS, Holden lost 500 sales per month'.
'Can't make omelettes without breaking eggs. Oh yeah, that Reuss guy's in charge. I remember - I blocked his entry to the GM Country Club.'
'No sir, Mark Reuss is in charge of Zeta Trucks and SUVs in Oshawa for the US – they’re going gangbusters. It’s the Korean Lim guy from Daewoo’.
‘What the hey – we’re giving those guys GM divisions to manage? Haven’t we got any good ol’ boys left? What is the world coming to! And I don't like you using the 'N' word’
‘Well, actually sir, he’s doing very well, held the line in a difficult market….’
‘Get him on the blower and tell him to stop making goddamn Calais – we can’t have the quarterback taken out by our own defense!’

12 months later and the new AsiaPac V-P ‘Hurricane’ Katrina Slashburn (former head of Feminine Side Integration) is conferring with her PA, Cynthia Sweetmouth.
‘Pookie, bring me the latest GM Premium sales figures for Downunder. Hmmm, still only 200 CTS a month. Didn’t we drop the price to $50,000?’
‘Yes, and included the Krusty Ultra Clown Pack with Folding Fries tray. For some reason there is buyer resistance’
‘Bring me the Holden figures’
‘They’re not doing so good – with the new Toyota RWD sedan and coupe, coupled with Hyundai and Kia selling the RWD cars at a price cut they lost leadership of their market. Without the lux cars they used to make they don’t have the budget to update and their cars are slipping behind the competition. Plus we lost them another 15% when we stopped them selling Berlinas after market research told us people preferred a $40K Holden to a $60K CTS.’

‘Well, they’re obviously in decline anyway - why postpone the inevitable? Might as well shut the doors to the factory and send a shipload of the new Impala and Malibu over there. We can save money on Lion and Globe stationary by selling as Chevs. That way we’ve just increased US exports, and stopped our own divisions blocking “The Great Waggoner Train.” ’

‘But …but…our research shows Australian GM buyers overwhelmingly prefer RWD large cars made there, and there is growing resentment at outside interference to their own brands from America. There were near-riots when we shut HSV down so they wouldn't compete with the CTS-V and Corvette, after we got the laws changed so LHD cars could be imported’

‘Goddamn it Cynthia, those people just don’t know what’s good for them. They’ll buy them and like them – get that pinko bitch Australian PM on the line and tell her we’ll unelect her if she doesn’t toe the line’.

‘Err, Katy, we can’t do that. We don’t elect Australian Prime Ministers anymore – the Chinese own the Pink Slip now;
‘Goddamn it!’

Anyone else read the interview with Tony Hyde in Street Machine Jan08? The article is on pages 36-38 and is titled "LionHeart".

"Bill Hamel was the best without a doubt. He was an American but he didn't ram the American way down your throat."

"I enjoyed working with Peter Hanenberger too;"

"Denny Mooney had a great understanding of engineering and really appreciated what we were doing, but things didn't always run smoothly and he definately did a GM on us."

Moderators.
Sorry, can't find it on the Street Machine site to post a link. I thought these quotes sort of fitted the Holden future angle that is being discussed here. I hope I have adequately referenced the quotes.

[a_v_s]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

With the cost of labour in Australia and the lower and lowering US dollar for the foreseeable future I can guarantee you that there will be some accountant in Detroit who will work out what the business case would be if they decontented a Zeta Cadillac built in North America and slapped front and rear Holden clips on it.

No, GM should not be doing this, and I hope they never do this... I have nothing against importing/exporting cars, but pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease GM quit decontenting cars... People are already complaining the CTS doesn't have SatNav in Australia... What are you going to do next? Slap a Holden Badge on a "Caddy Zeta", with non-functional SatNav, but with heated seats and sunroof stripped out? Yeah, that'll do wonders for GM's image

GM needs to quit with the whole, "let's decontent this car to protect <insert brand name here>".

When you can get SatNav in a Honda Civic, or Bluetooth and pushbutton start in a Nissan Altima, etc... It stops making sense to decontent cars to compete with cars that are already above this level of car, which already have those features that you just stripped out.

[TriShield]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

Here's the nightmare scenario:

Best post ever

[aldw]

Originally Posted by TriShield

Best post ever

If GM had any brains at all they'd be able to execute the exact opposite of the nightmare scenario, but at this point things look very muddy...

[Slick_Holden]

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

I hate it when people say 'well holden has this price range covered and its a larger size for the same price,

It is.

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

ka durk a durk'...well duh, Holden is the chevrolet equivalent in Oz not a Cadillac eqivalent.

Um i think other then engine the comparisons stops there chief. You would be surprised at what these VE's can compete against.

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

OF COURSE, people would never QUESTION the PRICE of Audi/BMW/MB entry level vehicles like this because 'deyre german, yah stuttgart mOn'...yet Cadillac CTS gets compared to some calais holden or a 300? Bull S***!

Having issues with this are we?.
Well the 300c doesn't come close to being competitive with the Calais, Actually it did compete with the model before the Holden VE that being the VZ.
Happy, Guess that puts it in the upper class, But since you are not living here and know what cars are positioned where i going to give you the benefit of not knowing what your saying.

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

A holden V6???? Funny, huh, NEVER HEARD OF ONE! Those boneheads don't know what they're talking about, ALL HFV6 TESTING ENGINEERING AND DEVELOPMENT occurred in NA specifically in the USA! Ka durk a durk! It was all centralized here in MI and in Ontario, sheesh, way to be ignorant. Maybe it was adapted to the local market and underwent certification down under for that market, but its a GMNA design for the world. get a clue lou.

It was also helped and designed with holden engineers at GM, See you might not think or know that. But also went under years of testing in Australia. Not just being adapted for the local market but holden was proud to have a massive hand in helping GM with there new global V6.
Which they have built here since 2004.
To ignore Holdens brilliance in helping GM worldwide is ignorant.

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

Lacking of lateral and front support? Talking about the upteenth airbag lacking for rear passengers? Because someone is a clutz hitting their temp gauges? Spongy brakes?!?!?!? ...what are you smoking?

I think your an angry person, If someone has a opinion on something respect it even if you don't like it.

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

The ONLY legit beef's I can gather are (and I didn't know this till now) the car being LHD not RHD which doesn't seem right to me, isn't it RHD in EU? and Sate. Navigation not working in Oz, yet how is that? Doesn't HSV have navi? Use the same system, duh?

CobaltSScrazy

What the **** is EU?.
Sat nav is available on many models not just HSV.
LHD RHD it's flexible.

Holden builds the best rwd cars in the world for price and competitiveness.
Without us you would be driving FWD 5lt V8 cars @ $40,000.

Who is ignorant?, There were many Holden engineers walking around different GM factory's working on projects and noone knew who they were durk a durk

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

way to be an ass, I appreciate that. Since you're our resident GMI expert on non-US markets, lets see Mr. KnowItAll explain the market to us in elaborate detail... no seriously, explain it we're ALL waiting...

As an expert on markets world wide, Lets see you exsplain this one.

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

I do not claim to be an 'expert'

Could have fooled me.

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy;

do you speak proper English?

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy;

ka durk a durk!

[/quote]

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

As far as the comments about the Zeta being dynamically better than the Sigma II, I highly doubt that, and I'd LOVE to see comparably powertrain equipped CTS vs. 'anything Holden' around the 'Ring for a true winner I believe CTS would win, and by a good amount, not close at all. I guess when the G8 V6 comes stateside and grab a CTS and do a compro!

CobaltSScrazy

Ah ha, Dur ka durk, Thats where you get it wrong, See it's not the Calais model.
What you are basically getting is the SV6 and SS models.
The SS-V is close to Calais, The SV6 is same kit with almost base model trim. A real Comparison would be Calais-V V6 and V8 models Vs the equivalent Caddy.
You will never see premium brands holden has.

But i don't think i trust the Typical US jurno anyhow.
Last time the Monaro GTO Went head 2 head with a Mustang, It beat that car in all area's, But one. Got to have facotor, Which is nothing to do with a cars running just a made up bit of ****.
So tell me, Why does a car that is better all around loose to a car that couldn't match it?.

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

So if Holden and its Calais model lineup and Statesman and whatnot trump the BMW/MB, why doesn't holden just charge 20,000 dollars extra since they're on par 'dynamically'?

CobaltSScrazy

Cough "Caprice".

Because then it wouldn't be the top selling car in the country would it?.
It's priced to make you think twice in an alternative.

See the Caprice is selling in the middle east like bullets, So they think highly of it enough to give it car of the year over and over again.
Mate the sheiks love them. And they have plenty of money to buy $1million + cars.


Our market is tight right now, And it's fine bringing something in that might take sales from other makers, But if it takes just 1 from holden it's going to hurt in the long run.
Because these cars are there back bone.