Businessweek: GM Must Fashion Another Cadillac Renaissance

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by member12

CTS is a great mid sized sport/luxury car.

Now, the plans are to lengthen it slightly with a new redesign in a few years while a new Alpha-based car slots below it.

This isn't a bad move....but what I'm afraid to see is this new XTS that they are talking about.

Otherwise, they seem to be on the right track....they are just moving very slowly.

CTS might grow for gen. 3 about an inch or two, but don't expect something the size of the STS.

[calgaryhhr]

Originally Posted by 70eldo

Depicted was the A-class, but the B-class looks similar. Yes: just as ugly!
And yes; they sell them by the thousands in Europe. And yes; you can rent and lease both A and B.

I had no idea that image was of a MB A class. I thought it was the B class because that is the model that is available in Canada. I thought it looked a little smaller in the rear but I thought maybe that was a result of the B in Canada and Europe being different.

Thanks for the correction.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by schmallz

CTS might grow for gen. 3 about an inch or two, but don't expect something the size of the STS.

So long as the growth translates to leg room and not something like useless overhang, that's fine.
I'd rather it get a bit wider than longer though.

THe issue really shouldn't be about lenght or size of CTS. It is the feature set that is lacking from CTS when STS dies.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by 70eldo

Depicted was the A-class, but the B-class looks similar. Yes: just as ugly!
And yes; they sell them by the thousands in Europe. And yes; you can rent and lease both A and B.

And let's talk about MB quality. The A class had a very bad start. It tipped over in the slalom, so media emidiately drew side wheels on the car. Then they had major rust issues on the doors that initially wasn't covered by insurance. Many MB customers were VERY disappointed. And those are the issues that I know of.

Get my point?

Yes, but of all those European sales how many went to fleets? It's just so ugly I can't imagine that many consumers in Europe would purchase this car, especially with the countless more attractive options available to them. I always though MB's quality was over hyped but I had no idea such recent vehicles had so many quality issues. How did those quality issues slip past them?

Originally Posted by schmallz

Audi has the A3 & RS3

BMW has the 1 & 135i(basically an M1)

Mercedes has the A/B Class, no AMG.

There's a reason the first two are sold here, but the Mercedes is not.

Cadillac would do well if it offers a Sub-Compact ATS and a Compact BTS, as well as entire families for both.

SWB Alpha
ATS(sedan) ATC (3door) ATW(Wagon)
24k 2.0 I4 @ 150hp
29k 2.0T I4 @ 250hp
34k 3.0TT V6 @ 350hp

LWB Alpha
BTS(sedan) BTC(coupe/conv.) BTW(wagon) BTX(CUV)
33k 2.0T I4 @ 250hp
43k 3.0TT V6 @ 350hp
53k 4.0TT V8 @ 450hp

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't MB still sell the C200 here? I am not too familiar with the car and I only seen a handful of them over the years but doesn't it compete with the offerings you mentioned from Audi and BMW? Oh and I love those Alpha based Cadillac's you though up, I think they would appeal very nicely to the younger demographics.

[Dr. Show-Me]

I saw DB A and B class puddle-jumpers earlier today in Bonnieux. If Americans saw how small and non-luxurious they are, they would no longer consider DB as a luxury car manufacturer. They have been wise to keep such vin ordinaire out of the US.

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Yes, but of all those European sales how many went to fleets? It's just so ugly I can't imagine that many consumers in Europe would purchase this car, especially with the countless more attractive options available to them. I always though MB's quality was over hyped but I had no idea such recent vehicles had so many quality issues. How did those quality issues slip past them?



Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't MB still sell the C200 here? I am not too familiar with the car and I only seen a handful of them over the years but doesn't it compete with the offerings you mentioned from Audi and BMW? Oh and I love those Alpha based Cadillac's you though up, I think they would appeal very nicely to the younger demographics.

Yes, the Midget C Class was available in the states, no longer, I don't think they sell them in other parts of the world either.

BMW also had a pigmey 3 series, 318Ti I think it was called.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

3207 for even monthly sales doesn't sound too impressive, but yes I meant in Europe since I thought the vehicle was only available in Europe. I think a base MB isn't a bad idea but it just looks low rent IMO, MB can do better.

Keep in mind the Canadian market is about 1/10th the size of the US. We have just over 30-million people as opposed to your 300-million population.

To get a sense of how MB markets the car in Canada, see the Canadian B-class webpages here: http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/b/

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by schmallz

Yes, the Midget C Class was available in the states, no longer, I don't think they sell them in other parts of the world either.

BMW also had a pigmey 3 series, 318Ti I think it was called.

The Midget C Class never did well huh?

Originally Posted by Tone

Keep in mind the Canadian market is about 1/10th the size of the US. We have just over 30-million people as opposed to your 300-million population.

To get a sense of how MB markets the car in Canada, see the Canadian B-class webpages here: http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/b/

Thats a factor I didn't take into consideration.

[OLDSCHOOLGMFAN]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

I saw DB A and B class puddle-jumpers earlier today in Bonnieux. If Americans saw how small and non-luxurious they are, they would no longer consider DB as a luxury car manufacturer. They have been wise to keep such vin ordinaire out of the US.

"Vin ordinaire", LOL!

Hey Merc, bring them toys over here, I'm sure your "prestige" and "image" will sell 'em!

[nimrod]

Originally Posted by OLDSCHOOLGMFAN

"Vin ordinaire", LOL!

Hey Merc, bring them toys over here, I'm sure your "prestige" and "image" will sell 'em!

just as a side note: both a and b class are know to be rust buckets.....3 or 4 year olds are already rusting on the doors and trunk lid. mercedes quality.

[cad1cts]

WOW! I didn't know that about the A and B class cars. Guess its a really good thing they don't sell them here then.

[OLDSCHOOLGMFAN]

Originally Posted by nimrod

just as a side note: both a and b class are know to be rust buckets.....3 or 4 year olds are already rusting on the doors and trunk lid. mercedes quality.

I ain't suprised. Just goes to show you how some autobuilders plum get away with murder.