Autonews: GM Seeks Global Input For Future Cadillac

[bone]

G.M. could start by building a modern V-8 engine for the Cadillac, perhaps naming it "Ultra." I'm sure both Merc. and BMW offer them.

[ghughes]

"Cadillac needs to alienate its traditional buyer base in order to establish a new class of buyer." - Whew, silly statement-
I guess you mean that we need to build only 3 and 1-series sized BMW clones? no more escalade or dts? - does merc do this? GM could continue to sell the large lineup and add a 3-series or 1-series competitor; can this be done with the ltd resources of the corp?. BMW(especially) also UglyAudi and Merc focus their efforts on these sized platforms- & they throw billions at the 3-sized car dynamics and have years of experience in the segment. Is the segment profitable enough with the huge cost to enter it effectively? Caddy's BLS is a cheapie-way into the segment and its a dismal flop;

[aldw]

Originally Posted by ghughes

"Cadillac needs to alienate its traditional buyer base in order to establish a new class of buyer." - Whew, silly statement-
I guess you mean that we need to build only 3 and 1-series sized BMW clones? no more escalade or dts? - does merc do this? GM could continue to sell the large lineup and add a 3-series or 1-series competitor; can this be done with the ltd resources of the corp?. BMW(especially) also UglyAudi and Merc focus their efforts on these sized platforms- & they throw billions at the 3-sized car dynamics and have years of experience in the segment. Is the segment profitable enough with the huge cost to enter it effectively? Caddy's BLS is a cheapie-way into the segment and its a dismal flop;

MG is closer to the truth of the luxury market than any of the 'traditionalists' ever will be.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by ghughes

- Whew, silly statement-
I guess you mean that we need to build only 3 and 1-series sized BMW clones? no more escalade or dts? - does merc do this? GM could continue to sell the large lineup and add a 3-series or 1-series competitor; can this be done with the ltd resources of the corp?. BMW(especially) also UglyAudi and Merc focus their efforts on these sized platforms- & they throw billions at the 3-sized car dynamics and have years of experience in the segment. Is the segment profitable enough with the huge cost to enter it effectively? Caddy's BLS is a cheapie-way into the segment and its a dismal flop;

What it means is that GM should quit focusing on their traditional customer base -- the geriatric set and middle America -- and build cars that would attract my demographic (the young urban professional, 20-30-something set) as well as the geriatric set and middle America..

You don't continue to build cars for a specific segment and expect to be successful.
You build a world class product that will be attractive to all.

Cadillac cannot continue to build cars as large as CTS and attempt to market it as a 3-series competitor. That just plain lame. It makes no sense. And it cripples the CTS outside the US because it lacks the necessary equipment to compete with the 5 and E! That perpetuates the under-built, under-engineered image of American cars.

[BBDOS CV8]

Cadillac doesn't need to lose it's essential American-ness to compete. I understand what Bravada is saying: currently Europeans buying Merc and BMW stretched limos would buy a STS Cadillac - if that car offered the amenties those cars did. And I'm not talking a 500hp V8. They want quality, luxury and no stopgap or convenience store fittings. Their mobile business lounges need to be big, but efficient.

Cadillac could come up with cars that work in both places. The look of the STS and most of it's content for instance is actually right. Some of the execution might not be. Getting assistance from the Chinese GM team responsible for the ultra-lux Park Avenue interior would probably take it most of the way there.

But what I see is - in the UK and other places issues are raised: driveline noise, seats, brakes, suspension tune, strange non-standard US-speak abbreviations on the controls, trims and materials. The answer seems to be 'gee, don't you people know when you're getting the best?'. Sort of 'never mind the quality, feel the width'. That won't cut it outside the US. The Japanese are the Japanese because of continuous improvement and customising for different markets, not 'it's fine for us, learn to live with it'.

In a lot of cases what is stellar for Cadillac in some markets is pedestrian for other brands. And when you can't count on patriotism of selling in your own market to make up deficits or gloss over weaknesses, then it's gonna hurt elsewhere.

What I'm talking about it: what BMW or Mercedes sells in a particular model in the US - may not be what is in that car in Europe, Asia or the Middle East. Not mechanically maybe, but in terms of trim, suspension settings, equipment etc. XM radio doesn't matter a damn anywhere it isn't supported. But it better have a premium Bose MP3/CD/harddrive system (which the Caddy does).

While the CTS for instance appears to be world class in ride, handling and other attributes it sill has some very olde-worlde GM foibles in the interior and in some parts. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be optimised.

In many industries they have the 80:20 or 90:10 ethos of getting something out there and fixing the deficiencies later. That won't work in this segment. It has to be more like 97:3.

[powervette]

the reviewer desired this car more than anything he has ever driven. I am not surprised...

[TBR 427]

Caddy, I'm here, and I'm waiting...
...
...for you to:
1/ hire me, so you can...
2/ build this:

[regfootball]

if cadillac is global, it should reflect to a fair degree the composite of what folks all over the world want.

[Exploder]

Originally Posted by powervette

I like that interior color scheme! How come I've never seen it before?

I believe Cadillac should retain some Americanness while competeing globally at the same time. It needs that distinction.

[b4z]

if Cadillac starts building cars with European sensibilities I hope they try to give them more rear legroom than a 5 or Eclass because I would not buy anymore Cadillacs.
The SRX has more rear legroom than the X5 or ML.
Oh wait, i forgot there isn't going to be a SRX replacement.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by megeebee

GM seeks global input for future Cadillacs


Rick Kranz

Automotive News | January 28, 2008 - 12:01 am EST


DETROIT — In yet another attempt to turn Cadillac into a successful global brand, General Motors this year will take a group of designers to China, Russia and other countries to learn what it might take to get BMW and Mercedes-Benz buyers behind the wheel of a Cadillac.

This is a major change in product-development strategy for GM. Generally speaking, today's Cadillacs are developed for North American buyers, then sold in other markets.

"What we see happening in China is profound in terms of how quickly and exponentially the growth is happening," said Clay Dean, Cadillac's new global design director. "The luxury market is going to be big in China. It isn't big there yet, but it will be big in the first- and second-tier cities."

Leaders from GM's Asia Pacific regions met Jan. 17 with GM management in Detroit to discuss Cadillac's potential in China. Dean said Cadillac's product portfolio was a key topic.

A rear-drive large sedan debuting around 2011 or 2012 will be the first Cadillac developed for a global customer instead of a North American buyer, said Dean. That sedan is expected to replace the STS and DTS and compete with the Mercedes-Benz E class and BMW 5 series.

"When we look at our direct competitors — BMW, Mercedes and Audi — they are global brands," Dean said.

Particularly in terms of vehicle size, he said: "They have product that is acceptable and more appropriate around the world. We have a North American portfolio."

Trying to sell U.S.-oriented vehicles globally has been a dismal failure for Cadillac. Last year Cadillac said it sold 15,722 vehicles outside North America, up from 9,581 in 2006. In 2007, 7,022 Cadillacs were sold in China, the No. 3 market for Cadillac behind Canada. Cadillac sold 3,023 vehicles in Europe and 1,485 in Russia last year.

Sales of the BLS, a mid-sized sedan and wagon sold in Europe, have been disappointing. GM plans to add a small rwd sedan that will replace the BLS around 2010 and be targeted at the BMW 3 series. A small all-wheel-drive crossover inspired by the Provoq concept also is planned.

But Dean said those vehicles will arrive before the new vehicle development strategy takes effect.



SOURCE: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart

Hi megeebee,

Thanks for the article and I like what I am seeing here. Cadillac should have a portfolio to attract and sell in countries outside of the US and it begins with design. I see this recognition as not a loss to Cadillac, but a gain in understanding the requirements of the markets Cadillac wishes to participate in and compete. The base product is good, but it is not tuned to other world markets from its design, but tune for the US and that will not be as successful as having all of the requirements from the world markets and designing it into your products.

It is the right direction for Cadillac's product development and as with anything in design, balance is key in retaining Cadillac's style, design and advance technologies while all the time ensuring it is applicable in countries they desire to sell in.

In my view, this is simply a logical step in the transformation of Cadillac's portfolio and design approach.

JLM

[70eldo]

Originally Posted by asrapid

Well they have to change perception of European buyers if they wan't to successed. And put more diesel engines in their cars. Also i hope they don't copy german trio in design.I don't like their design.Cadillac will have hard time in Europe. They should also look at Alfa Romeo as opponent not just germans because soon Alfa will also go rwd, they have exellent design, very good handling and performance and probably will have v8 engines in their cars in future.

Cadillac and Alfa Romeo (Fiat Group) actually work together in development. The 2.9 Turbo Diesel comes from Fiat and Alfa Romeo will use the CTS drive line including the CTS AWD. The engine in the Alfa Brera actually comes from GM too.

Sorry, couldn't find an english source
http://www.autointernationaal.nl/artikel.php?id=5856

Oh, and they should keep the CTS BETWEEN the 3 and 5er and between the A4 and A6 and between the C and E. That's just where it is and that should be its strength.
A new BLS would be very good. In quality it is up to par for its class, but it is not different enough to attract new buyers and it is way too expensive.

[70eldo]

Originally Posted by powervette

the reviewer desired this car more than anything he has ever driven. I am not surprised...

Congrats on the ride!
Not a fan of the clear lenses, but it is unfortunately obligatory due to the indicators (can't be red).
Tip: get some nice license plate frames and rubber floor mats

oranje boven!

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by 70eldo

Cadillac and Alfa Romeo (Fiat Group) actually work together in development. The 2.9 Turbo Diesel comes from Fiat and Alfa Romeo will use the CTS drive line including the CTS AWD. The engine in the Alfa Brera actually comes from GM too.

Sorry, couldn't find an english source
http://www.autointernationaal.nl/artikel.php?id=5856

Oh, and they should keep the CTS BETWEEN the 3 and 5er and between the A4 and A6 and between the C and E. That's just where it is and that should be its strength.
A new BLS would be very good. In quality it is up to par for its class, but it is not different enough to attract new buyers and it is way too expensive.

2.9 l V6 comes from VM motori which GM bought. Yes i know GM shares V6 gasoline engine with Fiat (which are also put in 159 and 166 not just brera), with different heads, camshaft tuning, etc . But according to rumors fiat is developing new V6 engines. And next 166 will get v8 engines accordind to rumors and it will go against e, A6 and CTS. In Europe cadillac cts is or will be compare against E class, A6 , 5 liked or not so it is better be capable to handle them.

[70eldo]

Originally Posted by asrapid

2.9 l V6 comes from VM motori which GM bought. Yes i know GM shares V6 gasoline engine with Fiat (which are also put in 159 and 166 not just brera), with different heads, camshaft tuning, etc . But according to rumors fiat is developing new V6 engines. And next 166 will get v8 engines accordind to rumors and it will go against e, A6 and CTS. In Europe cadillac cts is or will be compare against E class, A6 , 5 liked or not so it is better be capable to handle them.

Sometimes it is good to have more competition to get in the picture more. Fiat or Alfa Romeo will be no thread for the CTS. It will likely also take a bite from the Audi/Mercedes/BMW-pie, rather than from Cadillac.

I see it highly favourable to have another competitor in that section.