2009 XLR and XLR-V

[elderon]

Originally Posted by Branden

XLR's problem is quite easy to understand really. In order to succeed in the market place at the price it sells for..it needs to be a better all around car than the Corvette. While it is better than Corvette in terms of luxury and comfort...it is a lesser car in every other mesurable detail..especially performance.

Put youself in the buyers shoes...
If some said for $80K you can have either a base Northstar powered XLR, or a LS7 powered Z06...I know what car wins 99 times out of hundred (no matter how old you are).

The other problem is..there is no prestige to owning a XLR. A Corvette is a Corvette..people grow up dreaming about buying one. On the other hand..no one has the same setiment about an XLR. In reality, if you buy an XLR...people will just snicker at you for spending Z06 money on a car that is slower, softer, and twice the price of a base Corvette.

BINGO!!! This completely nails it.

GM's insistance on using the Northstar in this thing is whats killing it.

[GMC-70]

Originally Posted by eaton53

The Lexus looks like an upside down bathtub.

True --and from some past reviews many testers felt like they were in one due to the extra high beltline. When you see someone in this Lexus all you see is their head--I would kind of think that it may hinder the convertible experience somewhat as well.

The XLR still looks great IMO--I hope GM continues to evolve this along with the next gen Vette

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Its really sad. This shot looks great. This is one beutiful automobile, no matter what clarkson says

It's easy for Brits to criticize automobiles in general. They don't build any themselves anymore, so Jeremy can be as condescending and bitter as he likes.

[TaHoE]

Originally Posted by elderon

BINGO!!! This completely nails it.

GM's insistance on using the Northstar in this thing is whats killing it.

I disagree. I think it's GM's insistance on using UNDERPOWERED and UNREFRESHED Northstars is killing the XLR. Who wouldn't want a 600HP Supercharged Northstar V8 in their XLR-V?

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Branden

XLR's problem is quite easy to understand really. In order to succeed in the market place at the price it sells for..it needs to be a better all around car than the Corvette. While it is better than Corvette in terms of luxury and comfort...it is a lesser car in every other mesurable detail..especially performance.

Put youself in the buyers shoes...
If some said for $80K you can have either a base Northstar powered XLR, or a LS7 powered Z06...I know what car wins 99 times out of hundred (no matter how old you are).

The other problem is..there is no prestige to owning a XLR. A Corvette is a Corvette..people grow up dreaming about buying one. On the other hand..no one has the same setiment about an XLR. In reality, if you buy an XLR...people will just snicker at you for spending Z06 money on a car that is slower, softer, and twice the price of a base Corvette.

I disagree. I'll bet that 90% of XLR owners are males over the age of 55. They look at a Corvette and think of the ridiculously unrefined, bare bones 1970s Corvettes. Even if they grew up wanting to own a Corvette, they have, in fact, grown up. None of them is saying "my Corvette is faster than your XLR". (Does any high school graduate actually say "my car is faster than yours"?)

In any event, the XLR is not competing against the Corvette. It is competing against the far more sophisticated (I mean socially, not mechanically) SL. The XLR has an interior that look slike it was lifted from a 1992 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo.


It appears that GM's thinking is: we don't sell enough XLRs to justify an all new interior. But, of course, GM never will sell enough until it gives the XLR an all new interior.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by FierySolstice

Wow thanks Mr. Optimistic! The XLR will only die if Mercedes stops making the SL500 and BMW stops planning the new Z9.

What's to be optimistic about?
It's already been stated XLR is dead. As is STS and DTS.
SRX is being repurposed.

Cadillac took a 10 year hiatus from the roadster market, and it looks like they're going to do so again.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

What's to be optimistic about?
It's already been stated XLR is dead. As is STS and DTS.
SRX is being repurposed.

Cadillac took a 10 year hiatus from the roadster market, and it looks like they're going to do so again.

XLR dead? What is cadillac thinking? I can see their reasoning about a marriege between DTS and STS, but a dead XLR? Even a Coupe DTS will not replace it.

[JerryL]

Something I never see mentioned.....there is no aftermarket whatsoever for this car. MBZ "tuners" sell a ton of stuff for the SL. This car gets next to no aftermarket interest. I believe that is some of the reason why this car has no cache'.....very, very important to SL owners.

[Branden]

You missed my point completely...
I am not talking about people who are buying XLR's...of course he buys one because he wants a soft luxury car more than anything. I am talking about sales the XLR looses to the Corvette. Again..if someone gives you $80K..and tells you to choose between a Z06, or base Northstar XLR...what do you buy? Hell, a $60K LS3 Vert is even a more compelling choice than a base XLR. You can get most everything that is in an XLR in a Vette with the exception of the folding hard top.

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

I disagree. I'll bet that 90% of XLR owners are males over the age of 55. They look at a Corvette and think of the ridiculously unrefined, bare bones 1970s Corvettes. Even if they grew up wanting to own a Corvette, they have, in fact, grown up. None of them is saying "my Corvette is faster than your XLR". (Does any high school graduate actually say "my car is faster than yours"?)

In any event, the XLR is not competing against the Corvette. It is competing against the far more sophisticated (I mean socially, not mechanically) SL. The XLR has an interior that look slike it was lifted from a 1992 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo.


It appears that GM's thinking is: we don't sell enough XLRs to justify an all new interior. But, of course, GM never will sell enough until it gives the XLR an all new interior.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Branden

You missed my point completely...
I am not talking about people who are buying XLR's...of course he buys one because he wants a soft luxury car more than anything. I am talking about sales the XLR looses to the Corvette. Again..if someone gives you $80K..and tells you to choose between a Z06, or base Northstar XLR...what do you buy? Hell, a $60K LS3 Vert is even a more compelling choice than a base XLR. You can get most everything that is in an XLR in a Vette with the exception of the folding hard top.

Aren't you simply saying: people who buy Corvettes instead of XLRs prefer Corvettes over XLRs.

No one is handing people $60,000 and saying choose between an XLR and Corvette. There are, however, real consumers out there. Some will want a hard-core Corvette no matter what GM does with the XLR. Some will never touch a Corvette no matter how cool you think it is. People who look at an XLR and say it's not worth it do not go buy a Corvette, even with your $60,000. They go buy an SL with their money.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Branden

I am talking about sales the XLR looses to the Corvette. Again..if someone gives you $80K..and tells you to choose between a Z06, or base Northstar XLR...what do you buy? Hell, a $60K LS3 Vert is even a more compelling choice than a base XLR. You can get most everything that is in an XLR in a Vette with the exception of the folding hard top.

Well, your assumption is that the Corvette is actually competing with the XLR.

If there is some sort of distinction that these 2 are "complementary," then GM has failed to distinguish these 2 cars.
Just because they sit on the same platforms, doesn't mean they should or do target the same market.

If XLR loses a sale because it is seen as an "inferior Corvette," then GM didn't do enough of a job in turning the XLR into an effective Mercedes SL and Jaguar XK competitor.

It doesn't matter if XLR has a Northstar or an EcoTec under the hood. Horsepower is only part of the equation.

The question is, "Does XLR stand up to its proper competition?" And the general consensus is a resounding "No," despite a large amount of technology and image and special "XLR only" perks. It wasn't enough to make a significant impact against the SL or the XK.

Does XLR look like a car that is worth $82,000 base? Yes.
Does the design and packaging prove to customers that it is worth $82,000 base? Not really.
If Cadillac had give the interior of the XLR an SLS or CTS--like treatment, I think we would have seen better sales overall.

This revised XLR shows only one thing -- GM is cutting its losses and is preparing the XLR to die. And that's extremely disheartening because of the sheer potential this car had.

[AMcA]

Originally Posted by FierySolstice

The XLR will only die if Mercedes stops making the SL500 and BMW stops planning the new Z9.

No, the XLR will die if GM continues with its usual MO: Attention Deficit Disorder.

Car's not selling like the '64 Mustang? Aw, give up and try something else. Maybe a whole different car with a whole different name 5 years down the road.

GM has no clue about building a name.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat

I agree... this car is AWESOME... but simply has a weak engine compared to the competition. When it came out the XLR with the 320HP NS was competitive, but not by much... now it is simply BEAT by the SL, which ranges from 382HP to 604HP... ENGINE power than GM has but will not give to the Cadillac brand except for the Vseries CTS. Bottom line is that the XLR should have the same amount of power as the Vseries (443HP or more) in the regular version and at least the same amount of power as the CTS-V in the XLR-V and STS-V. It simply makes no sense that they will not give these cars the LS engine range when the LS range is as smooth as any Benz/BMW engine.

Some one like Mcsgero will say that the LS engine is not smooth or quiet enuff.... but I am will to bet that they have only driven the LS in Trucks or Vettes... which all have larger or more aggressive exhausts. Like I've said time and time again like a BROKEN RECORD... drive a G8 GT and U will see a SMOOTH, QUIET, POWERFUL LS configuration that is worthy of Cadillac let alone a Pontiac

Hi CmicasatheGreat,

I will disagree with you on power regarding the XLR and XLR-V compared to Mercedes-Benz's SL550 and SL55 AMG and Jaguar's XK and XK Supercharged which are valid comparables in my view. It simply comes down to overall design and from a power to weight ratio perspective, the XLR and XLR-V, both are competitive today as is. Take for example the SL550, it weighs in at 400-600 pounds higher than Cadillac's XLR for 2009. Not only does the Cadillac feel better to drive, its Northstar engine is better engineered to use regular fuel versus premium, which is required for the Mercedes-Benz's SL55O and Jaguar XK convertible. And Cadillac’s XLR remains the most ridged and lightest chassis when directly compared with a similar optioned Mercedes-Benz's SL550 and Jaguar's XK convertible.

By the way, as part of the Cadillac XLR event I attended in Bowling Green KY this week, Cadillac made available the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 for our review. The Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 is the ultimate expression in a high performance sports car from GM. The GM Cadillac XLR/XLR-V and Chevrolet Corvette designers are quick to point out the design criteria for Cadillac's XLR/XLR-V and Chevrolet's Corvette, Z06 and ZR1 are in fact different. And driving these two sports cars from Cadillac and Chevrolet will quickly show their pedigree. They both are two seat sports cars but clearly design with different buyers in mind.

I reviewed the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 and the test driver provided a ride to a very limited number of truly interested performance addicts. All I can say is from a performance viewpoint, I have not experienced any sports car with the advance technology and blow out performance as with Chevrolet's Corvette ZR1.

If I were in the market for two sports cars, ultra luxury performance and ultra performance, I would purchase the Cadillac XLR-V for the ultimate performance luxury roadster and Chevrolet's Corvette ZR1 for the ultimate performance sports car.

However, the bottom line is this, it is the luxury buyer in this segment that determines the success of a luxury performance roadster and Cadillac’s XLR is not exempt. My opinion remains that Cadillac’s XLR is unknown in this sequent and if made available through marketing and advertising, it would gain in sales. That said, after experiencing the 2009 Cadillac XLR Platinum and XLR-V, I contacted my Cadillac dealership and the 2009 Cadillac XLR-V is on order for replacement of my 2005 Cadillac XLR.

If I had not directly compared Mercedes-Benz’s SL550, SL55 AMG, Jaguar’s XK and XK Supercharged to Cadillac’s XLR/XLR-V I might have a different opinion. But for today luxury brand model offerings, Cadillac’s XLR is one the very best the world has to offer.


JLM

[Branden]

The thing is..the Jag and Mercedes cars that everyone lists as the XLR's competition do not have something like the Corvette under them. Both the Corvette, and the XLR will cater to the well off 50+ crowd. The issue is..the Corvette has a cachet too it..where people dream forever of having one. The XLR on the other hand has a stigma of being a soft, slower, old man's sports car.

I can understand having a luxury version of the Corvette..however there is no excuse for the performance disparity. A base LS3 corvette at 430~HP should easily out perform the heavier top of the line XLR-V. Even more..that is just the base Corvette...you now have the Z06, and ZR1 (which is in the same price range as the XLR-V).

What I am saying is the reason the XLR would be termed a failure is because the Corvette is such a good car for the money and comes with such a great reputation. The XLR in most peoples eyes is simply not a value with Corvette there.

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Well, your assumption is that the Corvette is actually competing with the XLR.

If there is some sort of distinction that these 2 are "complementary," then GM has failed to distinguish these 2 cars.
Just because they sit on the same platforms, doesn't mean they should or do target the same market.

If XLR loses a sale because it is seen as an "inferior Corvette," then GM didn't do enough of a job in turning the XLR into an effective Mercedes SL and Jaguar XK competitor.

It doesn't matter if XLR has a Northstar or an EcoTec under the hood. Horsepower is only part of the equation.

The question is, "Does XLR stand up to its proper competition?" And the general consensus is a resounding "No," despite a large amount of technology and image and special "XLR only" perks. It wasn't enough to make a significant impact against the SL or the XK.

Does XLR look like a car that is worth $82,000 base? Yes.
Does the design and packaging prove to customers that it is worth $82,000 base? Not really.
If Cadillac had give the interior of the XLR an SLS or CTS--like treatment, I think we would have seen better sales overall.

This revised XLR shows only one thing -- GM is cutting its losses and is preparing the XLR to die. And that's extremely disheartening because of the sheer potential this car had.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Branden

The thing is..the Jag and Mercedes cars that everyone lists as the XLR's competition do not have something like the Corvette under them. Both the Corvette, and the XLR will cater to the well off 50+ crowd. The issue is..the Corvette has a cachet too it..where people dream forever of having one. The XLR on the other hand has a stigma of being a soft, slower, old man's sports car.

I can understand having a luxury version of the Corvette..however there is no excuse for the performance disparity. A base LS3 corvette at 430~HP should easily out perform the heavier top of the line XLR-V. Even more..that is just the base Corvette...you now have the Z06, and ZR1 (which is in the same price range as the XLR-V).

What I am saying is the reason the XLR would be termed a failure is because the Corvette is such a good car for the money and comes with such a great reputation. The XLR in most peoples eyes is simply not a value with Corvette there.

The SL also has the stigma of being a soft, slower, old man's car. BECAUSE IT IS. No one buys an SL or and XLR because they have the same "value" as a Corvette. Nobody in the rich-old-men-country-club market dreams about owning Corvettes, and their idea of "value" is $2,000 on a new set of golf clubs.

The Corvette is first class. The XLR is (supposed to be) private jet.