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What do You Expect From Your Base 6th Generation Camaro?

18K views 193 replies 57 participants last post by  rustywrench 
#1 ·
The base '15 Mustang will go for $24,425. That's for the carryover V6, though. I expect the base Camaro to be equipped with a 2.0T. Base Camaro will certainly need to be within a few bucks of base Mustang.

So what do expect for your under $25K Camaro?
 
#2 ·
BTW, the "standard" ATS 2.0T goes for more than $20 grand more than that, but it includes front Brembos,LEDs, automatic trans with paddle shifters, CUE, Bose sound system, leatherette, Sapele wood trim, remote start and 17" wheels.......
 
#79 ·
We know car prices are pretty arbitrary. The price difference between building an ATS or CTS versus something similar with a Chevrolet nameplate is going to be slim to nonexistent. An ATS that would go for 20 grand more than a Camaro (or more accurately, a CTS that would go for 30 grand more) might cost GM an extra grand to make over, say, a Camaro on the same platform even with additional equipment.

I've driven my sister's Camaro when I go to Phoenix and I've rented a couple of Challengers and Mustangs on my trips, so I thing I can say what I'd like by saying what I like and dislike about these 3 rides.

I love the Challenger's room and (save the soon to be replaced dashboard) general interior comfort. I feel Mustang easily had the best interior, but I would never buy one because of the extremely intrusive headrests. I have a neck issue which if my head's pushed forward for long periods of time, I develop a headache and neck pain that lasts for days. In the 80s, the large headrests in Fords (including Mustangs) could pivot and were comfortable. Current Camaro interiors I think seem cheap, even with the revisions made last year.....but I like the seat design.

6th gen Camaro interior: Although there's no way it'll have Challenger-like room, I'd hope it isn't as claustrophobic inside. I'd like to see the seats be as comfortable and supportive as the SRT seats in the Challenger. But don't lose the headrest design....or the sport look of the current seats. One thing that would be inexcusable is another cheap interior. The doors and dash looked great on the concept, but hard smooth plastic covering most of the door and the empty space on the passenger side of the dash was a bad idea and IMHO ruined the interior. It made it look and feel cheap.

The thing that takes a lot of getting used to in the Challenger is that it's high hood makes it feel big. Visibility is actually good, but you're aware this isn't a sports car. Camaro feels more like driving a tank. Camaro is actually a smallish car with a huge number of optical illusions that make it feel big. It's no bigger than a Mustang, but because of it's high beltline, mammoth sized wheel size, squashed roof, and gunslit sized windows, the Camaro looks and drives like it's as big as the Challenger, but without the visibility. While you sit on top of a Challenger, you feel like you're driving Camaro from the floor. Mustang seems to get it right with optical illusions of it's own. A low beltline makes this same-size-as-Camaro vehicle feel and look smaller. Rear overhang on the current Mustang is identical to the 2004 model, but because Ford designers clipped the rear sides, the bulky rear end "looks" gone, and the entire car "looks" smaller.

6th gen body: More visibility. Less effort making it look huge, and more effort making it look, feel, and drive sporty.

The biggest thrill of my Fox-Mustangs wasn't that they had a gazillion horsepower. It's that they felt like they did. Stop the pedal of a 5.0 Fox era Mustang, and the chassis shook, the nose inched upward as it squatted on it's rear 4 shocks, and with the thin soundproofing, large windows, and paper thin floorpan felt like you were taking off horizontally in a Saturn V rocket. Nevermind that it had only 225hp and only about 300 lbs/ft of torque. You FELT like you were being launched.

Nowadays, everything is far too smooth and anti climatic....Every base V6 version of every pony car in showrooms today can outrun that Mustang to 60 and even the quarter mile. The V6 Camaro will simply flay it in top speed (135-140 vs 155). But even the V8 versions of these cars feel dull by comparison when you mash the pedal. Sure, the scenery accelerates past you till it becomes a blur, but to paraphrase an old song, "The thrill is gone".... My 97 Z28 was a more exciting blast than the current SS.

6th gen Camaro: Even though today's regular buyers have pushed Noise Vibration Harshness (NVH) standards to the point where riding in cars is akin to sitting in stationary living rooms, how about a performance version with less sound deadening, and more NVH? Include it with a performance pack that also includes V6s and bring the thrill back.

Finally, It seems obvious that Challenger is the most successful of the pony car designs. It looks classic and hasn't aged at all, it's sales have increased steadily since it was brought out, meanwhile, Mustangs look a bit boring and Camaro needed a redesign to keep looking fresh even though it came out 6-8 months after the Challenger. While having a design that keeps looking good that long is about as rare as genuine bigfoot sightings, and I in no way advocate keeping body designs unchanged for 6+ years, it shows that clean designs work the best. I'd like the next Camaro to skimp on the styling clichés. Focus on great basic styling and clean sharp looks. You can always get expressive with grilles and taillights which can be changed as updates. But a good clean body is what makes a classic.

These next round of pony cars are likely to be the last ones with the original formula.

Gen Xers who were raised on turbo 4s and X-boxes, reach 30-40 years old and start taking over as key buyers in this market segment. CAFE won't kill these cars, but V8 engines will become the GT500s, ZL1s, and Hellcats while V6s will take the place V8s have today. Unless the cars are killed outright, the new Mustang and the upcoming Camaro will still be around for 2020 with no more than cosmetic changes and about to be replaced with whatever is next. By that time, today's key buyers of Camaro SS, Mustang GTs (45-55yo) probably would have moved on to another market.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Better performance. Better fuel efficiency. BETTER OUTWARD VISIBILITY......and a standard backup camera.

The visibility took some time for me to get used too. It just took much longer than expected to get comfortable.

LEDs should be standard as well GM needs to move away from the LTZ/RS only gets the LED treatment type of thinking. Little things such as that will push someone towards a Ford since buying these cars are just as much about style to a non performance person as buying a SS over a GT is to a performance oriented person.

Either go all the way or not.
 
#8 ·
Good points and I agree. I really expect the base Camaro to look good too. Obviously the SS will look a bit more serious but the base level of refinement should make someone feel like they're getting a quality car. The base wheels and rear fascia on the 5th gen look cheap and unfinished and it needs to change because most people will not be in a SS.

Chevy needs to realize that the base level of refinement needs to be able to support a 60K ZL1 and a 75K Z/28, not just a 25K entry level car. There needs to be trim levels befitting of all models.
 
#6 ·
I think the Camaro will take the same route as the Ford when it comes to the engines. Base V6, punchier and more of a premium I4-turbo, an LT1, and even higher performance LT1. Shave off some weight and make the car slightly smaller and bam you've got yourself the 6th gen Camaro.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Interesting...

So, what are they going to do, sell the V6 for more money? I'm confused. $26,500 is the starting point for the EB Mustang. How do they plan to position Camaro's price structure against Mustang?

Edit: I think I understand it as there will be two base engine options, one being the 2.0T. I can't see them charging much more for a V6. I don't think they will get EB money for it.
 
#15 ·
The base Mustang is the V-6 engine, it produces 300BHP and the ecoboost I-4 turbo produces 310BHP and 320ft-lbs of torque. The base Camaro will have as it seems a 2.0T I-4 engine and the V-6 will be an option over that. The current V-6 engine (the LFX) produces 323BHP in the 5th generation Camaro. The 6th generation Camaro gets a new 3.6L V-6 engine with maybe 330BHP(complete guess on the power part). It is the reverse where as Ford offers an I-4 turbo engine as an upgrade over its V-6 engine (we will have to see how this plays out in the market place) and the Camaro will have the 2.0T being the base engine and the V-6 being the upgrade engine.
 
#11 ·
A 3500lb, shorter, wider, taller Camaro with 6-speed manual, 3.6 V-6, black steelies, cloth interior, all gauges in instrument panel, dual exhausts and locking differential. The 1LE V-6 performance package should be an option.
 
#14 ·
Golf club friendly trunk opening. Human usable rear leg room might bring some people back to coupes. Rear camera will be mandated by this point. Base 7 speaker sound system. Something other than a black hole interior.
 
#18 ·
Oh, 305 HP V6, 8A, dual zone, knockout looks, a trunk that holds more than a set of golf clubs...
 
#19 ·
Frankly, I miss my GTO because it actually had a USABLE rear seat. 29" or rear leg room needs to go out to the Verano's 34", or at least match the Challenger's 32". Keep the weight down and the standard 3.6 and 2.0 turbo will be runners.
 
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#22 ·
I expect it to be a true global Mustang competitor. Not another GM POS car with lack of engine choices and steering wheel on the wrong side in UK market.
 
#25 ·
As you know the Camaro is a low volume seller in Europe, do you really think GM will make it in RHD.?
 
#23 ·
I expect a base model to have;
2.0T
6 speed manual or 6 speed auto (hoping 8A is there though)
Brakes smaller than higher performance models
Possibly no limited slip differential option
Simpler radio, only 4 speakers
Manual seats
Power windows, mirrors, locks
Has air conditioning
Smaller wheels, probably 17"s
No fog lights
No spoilers
Halogen headlights
Simple hood with no vents and no bulges
 
#24 ·
I suspect the platform overhead will be high, meaning that to get the goodies (suspension, brakes, powertrain) on the base car will mean giving up some features. Given how well its been reviewed, perhaps the Spark' smartphone-reliant infotainment system would be a good fit on the base car. Cloth seats should be fine. It's cheaper to make them all with power windows and air conditioning these days, so I'm not sure there is a lot of cost to cut there. Wheels and tires will probably be smaller and cheaper, which is fine as long as it doesn't cripple the car's handling feel.

I think it will be hard to just break even on the base car, but few of these are sold as base cars anyway. Offer all the performance goodies (upgraded brakes, tires, wheel, suspension, performance gearing) in a $2500 base car 1LE package. Add a infotainment package for $1500 or so. Add bold colours as options. Add leather or leatherette and interior upgrades. Reality is most 'base' models will go out the door a lot closer to $30,000 with decent margin on the options.
 
#27 ·
I don't expect a lot of standard features. PW, PDL, AC, a decent stereo, cloth seats, etc. I do expect it to be automotively fantastic though. They way it drives, it's chassis dynamics, it's steering, those need to be excellent. I'm not even concerned about it having the most power in it's class, to be honest. But it should be the most fun to drive in it's class. And of course, it needs gorgeous sheetmetal.

For me, that's my $25,000 worth.


I also hope that GM considers a performance package for the base version as well.
 
#30 ·
A 1LE equipped turbo 4 would get my attention.
 
#31 ·
what I expect in a BASE Camaro would be 2.0T cloth interior "BASIC" sound system like from the spark 6m/8A tranny choices 17 inch wheels steel/hubcaps
what I want to see in a BASE Camaro a "1LE" track PREP kit fog lights and a body kit that is NOT "POV PACK" looking - treat the BASE as if it is a "good" model to buy NOT a "you should have payed more and bought a ..." model like GM likes to do

I would like the Camaro to return to being a fastback/liftback like in the 90's as that would "FIX" the trunk opening "ISSUE"
 
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