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6th Gen Spy Shots

12K views 82 replies 23 participants last post by  BustedCrank 
#1 ·
#5 · (Edited)
While we've got this thread going, it seems the consensus is the 6th gen will be about 185-186" long, have a wheelbase of about 109-110" and drop at least 200 pounds, model for model.

Also, eventhough it is heavily disguised, you can see that the car's proportions have been altered compared to the other Alphas. Namely, it appears that it's dash to front axle length has been extended and the rear overhangs appear shorter. So we can finally put to rest the rumors that it must share the ATS or CTS wheebase and proportions.


Okay, discuss. ;)
 
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#14 ·
While we've got this thread going, it seems the consensus is the 6th gen will be about 185-186" long, have a wheelbase of about 109-110" and drop at least 200 pounds, model for model.
Is the weight thing really a "consensus" though? I know Guy is pretty insistent that the next car will only be very slightly lighter at best (queue the talk about RWD, IRS, high horsepower, big brakes, etc.). I guess we'll see what happens, but a Camaro that can't at least hover around the next Mustang model for model in the heft department would be a huge disappointment, now that all things will be equal (IRS).
 
#10 · (Edited)
I think it's going to be pretty good. It'll be smaller, less bulky and lighter than the current car - eventhough it may not be as light some of us had hoped, it should be lighter than Mustang. I've been told it has a fantastic interior, Alpha's chassis dynamics are full of goodness and Camaro will share those.

There's a lot to look forward to......
 
#15 ·
The ATS isn't as light as it could have been (even without going to exotic materials) because at the end of the day GM wasn't willing to put forth that many engineering dollars (old GM bean counters at work). There was a solid "gram strategy" in place that kept the weight down - but it could have gone farther. Just like the CTS which suffered similarly as well - both are heavier than they could have been.

So now we have the Camaro in development, the 3rd vehicle on the alpha platform, and it has a LOT of things going for it.

First, everyone was worried Camaro would sacrifice high-strength and low-weight alloys for cheaper heavier ones, but GM is discovering their suppliers will offer volume discounts that offset the tooling costs for carrying variations - so more "high end" alpha parts are simply eliminating the need for "low end" ones. This is magnified because as alpha grows to more and more variants, the plant that builds them has MORE parts to keep track of. GM needs to minimize variation.

Second, all of the "lessons learned" from the ATS and CTS are open for Camaro to learn from - subtle tweaks here and there are going to start adding up. Things engineers really started to see as cars went full production, for example.

Third, ATS and CTS have upwards of 200lb of sound insulation in them to cut down on noise - and Camaro just doesn't need that much (nor would we want it on a Z28 or SS where engine note is super critical) and cutting that insulation is going to shave off weight. The dashboards in the Cadillacs are also pretty heavy - something Camaro doesn't need.

And fourth, GM is simply "raiding the parts bin" for Camaro. Existing Cadillac parts are getting specified for Camaro like crazy which means it is slashing the engineering budget. This helps GM save what dollars they have for other things (like weight savings) instead of selecting suppliers and doing bid evaluations for brakes or struts or steering racks or speakers.

Everyone started to panic before the ATS came out that it'd be a pig and was going to be super heavy and it turned out to be lightest in the class. For GM's first serious attempt at a lightweight RWD car for the 21st century that's impressive. From GM. Who is notorious for doing half-assed jobs. All the time.

So if they put their mind to it, things can only get better.
 
#39 ·
The ATS isn't as light as it could have been (even without going to exotic materials) because at the end of the day GM wasn't willing to put forth that many engineering dollars (old GM bean counters at work). There was a solid "gram strategy" in place that kept the weight down - but it could have gone farther. Just like the CTS which suffered similarly as well - both are heavier than they could have been.

So now we have the Camaro in development, the 3rd vehicle on the alpha platform, and it has a LOT of things going for it.

From what I hear.....


GM will make even greater effort to reduce mass in the Camaro, than they did in the ATS. We'll see what results they end up delivering.
 
#17 ·
I like those 6th Gen renderings floating around the Internet that give a nod to the 3rd Gen front fascia and a nod to the 2nd/3rd Gen wrap-around taillights. I know they are just renderings and not spy-shots, but one can only dream.

I'm just a little worried that we'll be locked in perpetual homage to the 1969 Camaro. Can we have Camaro DNA in the 6th Gen without being afraid to deviate from 1st Gen styling? It can be done. I found it disappointing what Ford did with their 5th to 6th Generation Mustang in terms of appearance. I am keeping my fingers crossed in a nervous anticipation. Yeah I'm on a roll. Let the blistering of my opinions begin in 3...2...1...
 
#21 ·
A V6 ATS weighs 3,461 pounds. Would a V6 Camaro substantially outweigh that? Or would it be lighter due to less content, etc.?

The difference in weight between a current V6 Camaro and an SS Camaro is about 100 pounds. I think that's a fair approximate figure to use in extrapolating the 6th gen's mass.
 
#22 ·
It definitely is a fair way to view it, I'm just not convinced yet that the 6th Gen will be ATS sized. If it is ATS sized, it better beat the Mustang weights.

I don't think it will be as big as the CTS either, which weighs 3745lbs with a V6. There is a lot of space between the two and a lot of heavier luxury items that can be taken out.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I gotta ask though, wouldn't it make more sense to base your guesses on the curb weights of the ATS coupe rather than the sedan? Which, by the way, are 3411 lbs for the turbo and 3530 lbs for the V6.
Yes it would. :) ATS coupe w/V6 clocks in at 3530 pounds. A slightly bigger alpha Camaro would add weight. Add 50-100 pounds more for the V8. Add a little for added content and more premium materials. Dump a little of the sound deadening but it won't be much as they want it more "premium".

GM and Camaro team has its work cut out for it for a base LT1 Camaro to come in under 3700 pounds. Again I'm going to guess a hair more than Mustang GT at 3750. ('15 GT manual = 3705, '15 GT auto = 3729)
 
#33 ·
Why would a Camaro need "added content and more premium materials" over a Cadillac. I'd think the opposite would be true.

Anyway, I agree on the point that GM has it's work cut out for it when it comes to mass control. I think GM may have the upper hand regarding mass, starting with Alpha, than Ford did with transconfiguring DEW98 to D2C to the current S550 Mustang.
 
#35 ·
It has a hidden B-pillar under the rear glass like the current Camaro does.



EDIT: I have no idea what the RenCenter and that other thing are doing in the picture. :D
 
#56 ·
100K is totally possible, IMO. All we're basically talking about is a ~20% improvement over the 5th gen. But to do that, the 6th gen will need to be a great car. The 6th gen needs to be as much of an improvement over the 5th gen as the C7 corvette has been over the C6.

120K is also possible, but to hit that 10K per month average, it's gonna have to be a very compelling car that is priced competitively with the Mustang. I hope GM repeats what they've done with the Corvette, where any objective person will agree that the car is an excellent value for its class. In other words, I hope we get the bean-counters who priced the C7, not the crew who priced the ELR. haha.
 
#57 ·
Any word on whether AWD will be offered?
 
#64 ·
That said, the overall coupe market isn't as big as it once was. I believe the 2005 Mustang sold over 100,000, but that was with almost no competition. Now, you've got a new Mustang, Challenger with lots of attractive options (including 707 hp!). As pony cars get more sophisticated, they are becoming tertiary competitors to cars like the BMW 4-series as well.

I have no doubt that the new Camaro will be an impressive car. But, I think the sustainable volume is probably closer to 75,000 annually. Expect to sell more in year one and fewer in year five, though with special editions I wouldn't be surprised to see profitability to stay about the same through the run.
 
#67 · (Edited)
I'm guessing that the 6th gen will sell in larger numbers than the current car, because I believe it will have much broader appeal. And I say this for a number of reasons.

First, the fact that two available powerplants below the V8 will be offered, which will mark greater consumer choice for those who are not looking for 450-650 horsepower. And I expect that's a whole lotta folks.

Second, the 2016 Camaro will be smaller with a lower cowl. I cannot tell you how many people have told me that they are simply turned off by the sheer bulk of the 5th gen.

Third, the 2016 will drive like a sporty car, regardless of which engine consumers choose. The current architecture drives like a large car. That's probably fine for a lot of people, but it's not a bullseye for a traditional Camaro. Drive any version of a Zeta Camaro and any version of the ATS, back to back, and you'll get it. To me a 2.0T ATS feels extremely Camaro-like - much more so than even our current actual Camaro.

I think, not since the 3rd gens are we going to have such mass consumer appeal in a Camaro. All the ingredients are going to be there. True, the market has changed since those days, but no one is saying it's going to sell in the 200,000-300,000 range, but it certainly could consistently do 10K units per month.
 
#68 ·
I'm guessing that the 6th gen will sell in larger numbers than the current car, because I believe it will have much broader appeal. And I say this for a number of reasons.
The 6th gen will be a more "capable" car and a more "livable" car than the 4th gen or 5th gen were. Both have major visibility issues and bath-tub proportions. I love my 4th gen, but it's a miserable place in there. The 3rd gen always was a better car - it just had the worst interior imaginable. :lmao:

In order for GM to *really* kick up 6th gen sales, the Camaro needs to head back across the pond and invade one more time. If it is as good as it should be (with the alpha DNA) then it could work. Additionally, the 6th gen's smaller dimensions will make it an easier sell in Asia - which will help there as well (as alpha is already going to go full bore in China the parts supply chains will exist.
 
#71 ·
Not sure we can tell from these pics that the 6th gen will improve the visibility and I am certainly worried about the interior space shrinking at all. Another big complaint with the 5thgen was the cramped interior. GM will turn away buyers if the interior shrinks anymore.
 
#73 ·
What will be interesting is to see what they do around seating height. Designers are in a dilemma for sport cars. Looks demand a low seating position that allows a low, sleek roofline. But, boomers are still a huge market with lots of disposable income and they are getting older. Watching my Dad, one of the things that gets tiresome as you get older, even if you are still in relatively good shape, is getting in and out of low-slung cars. I wouldn't be surprised to see some styling tricks to allow a slightly higher, more upright seating position and better sightlines while still preserving the sleek, low 'hugger' looks.
 
#74 ·
Yeah, I don't know. I hear what you guys are saying about 100k-120k Camaros being possible but color me skeptical regardless of the issues they "fix" with the 6th Gen. When the 5th Gen debuted, people freaked. It was instantly the hottest car on the road. It had immeasurable marketing hype from the original Transformers movie. Despite whatever flaws we as enthusiasts saw, it beat GM's sales expectations and for the first time in a long, long time it consistently beat the Mustang as America's favorite pony car. And its best year was what, 88k? With a more evolutionary design, I don't see the same type of "freakout" reaction that was generated by the 2006 concept.
 
#76 · (Edited)
I could easily argue this on both sides, you know! :D

As far as GM's sales expectations for the 5th gen, who the hell really knows the actual target number? I've heard 100,000 units, then 120,000, then 130,000, then 60,000 and finally anything under 30,000 was a doomsday scenario, where the plug would be pulled. Whatever the actual number was, thankfully the Camaro sold well enough, where there was no question that investing in a 6th gen was a good idea.

The biggest limiting factor on the current car, IMO, is that I don't see a very broad spectrum of consumer demographics considering it. To a certain extent, that may be by design. But I'm sure GM wouldn't cry over more demographic consumer slices considering a Camaro as a viable purchase.

I hate to go back to the 3rd gen, but that was the last F-car which drew masses of people from all demographics. GM did sell a couple million of them, afterall. And that was for various reasons.

Bottom line is, I see the 6th gen being an attractive choice for consumers who wouldn't consider a 5th gen. I also see the 6th gen retaining almost all those who either considered or bought a 5th gen. Win/win.
 
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