6th gen Camaro powertrain talk......

[Z284ever]

CAUTION: Much speculation and educated guesswork in this thread.

It's become apparent that GM is moving forward with a TT 3.0L V6 for various products. Cadillac XTS, Buick LaCrosse and Enclave, next gen Impala, ATS and next gen CTS have all been rumored to get it. As opposed to an all out performance engine, the TTV6 looks like it'll be intended as a very fuel efficient, midlevel performance prime mover, for GM luxury car buyers. Just my guess, but I'd peg it's power in the 375-ish range.

At the same time, GenV smallblock development will continue for those products which are deemed to require a V8 - trucks, Corvette, certain versions of the Camaro, ATS and CTS, etc.

Anyhoo, there is a good possibility that Camaro may end up with both of these motors, especially if Mustang delivers both TTV6 and V8 on it's next gen car. Let's say a 375 hp TT 3.0L V6 as a midlevel powerplant and a 450 hp GenV smallbock as the halo car.

You can bet that for the halo car (oh, what the heck, let's call that a Z/28 ) you'll pay more than you will for the the midlevel car, eventhough a GenV smallblock will cost way less to manufacture than a twin turbo, intercooled, DOHC V6. It will be a CAFE strategy to funnel people into the higher MPG variants.

Who here would pay more for a cheaper to produce V8 vs a TTV6?

[demonspeed]

Assuming I had the funds -- I would.

[big swede]

In this type of car I would take the more powerful, better sounding, lighter V8 everytime.

[Z284ever]

I think if a turbo V6 could generate afew more mpg, GM would try to "encourage" most casual buyers into that package, by putting a premium price on the V8.

[Avalanche13]

Who here would pay more for a cheaper to produce V8 vs a TTV6?

I would. For me its pretty simple: no V8, no sale.

[JerryL]

A twin turbo V6 means all kinds of packaging problems. No way would I rather have one than a V8 in a Camaro. Cars other than a Camaro or Corvette I could deal with it but I'm too old school to accept it in the performance flagships. There's plenty of other cars to choose from for a V6TT ................please leave the Corvette and Camaro alone with a V8. In fact, I wouldn't want even a V10 in these cars.

[Impalibu]

First of all I doubt the turbo 3.0 will make 375hp. That seems a bit too high output for that engine. If GM is going to turbo the 3.0 then I see no reason why they can' d to it with the 3.6. We have seen that the smaller displacement 3.0 offers no better fuel economy than the 3.6 so why not use that one for the turbo version.

Another issue I see is price. Using a turbo charged engine for the base model might drive up the price. This wouldn't be a good thing since the Camaro is going for volume.

Here is what I think would be smart for GM to do. First of all take the 3.6 and increase the stroke to create a torquer 3.8L. Use this engine for base Camaro engine as well as the trucks. With the right gearing 30mpg should be doable. Using a simple engine should keep the price down.

Next make a TT version of that engine with ~400hp and use that for an optional engine on the RS model. Also include an optional track package so it can handle as well as the SS if thats what the buyer wants. This package will offer V8 performance with V6 fuel economy for a price somewhere between the base model and SS. (Also offer this engine in the trucks)

For the SS go with the 5.5L gen V V8 with 450-500hp. For the Z28 a SC 5.5L with 600+hp.

[Z284ever]

First of all I doubt the turbo 3.0 will make 375hp. That seems a bit too high output for that engine. If GM is going to turbo the 3.0 then I see no reason why they can' d to it with the 3.6. We have seen that the smaller displacement 3.0 offers no better fuel economy than the 3.6 so why not use that one for the turbo version.

Another issue I see is price. Using a turbo charged engine for the base model might drive up the price. This wouldn't be a good thing since the Camaro is going for volume.

Here is what I think would be smart for GM to do. First of all take the 3.6 and increase the stroke to create a torquer 3.8L. Use this engine for base Camaro engine as well as the trucks. With the right gearing 30mpg should be doable. Using a simple engine should keep the price down.

Next make a TT version of that engine with ~400hp and use that for an optional engine on the RS model. Also include an optional track package so it can handle as well as the SS if thats what the buyer wants. This package will offer V8 performance with V6 fuel economy for a price somewhere between the base model and SS. (Also offer this engine in the trucks)

For the SS go with the 5.5L gen V V8 with 450-500hp. For the Z28 a SC 5.5L with 600+hp.

1) IF the 6th gen gets the 3.0L turbo, it won't be the base engine. Think 4 cylinder for that.

2) They'll need to get more than 30 mpg on the base model.

3) There are no plans for a 5.5L displacement engine for production. I expect 6.2L in that application.

[Impalibu]

1) IF the 6th gen gets the 3.0L turbo, it won't be the base engine. Think 4 cylinder for that.

2) They'll need to get more than 30 mpg on the base model.

3) There are no plans for a 5.5L displacement engine for production. I expect 6.2L in that application.

1) Good point, I never thought of that. If a 4 cylinder was used it would have to be powerful. Maybe the 2.0 with ~260hp. I'm not sure how popular a 4 cylinder Camaro would be. If I were GM I wouldn't bother.

2) Another good point. I was thinking in terms of the current Camaro's size. If they do lose a significant amount of weight then I'm sure higher figures would be easy to reach. I was also thinking in terms of a V6 for the base model. If they do put in a 4 banger then I'm sure they can get much higher than 30.

3) From what I've read the next gen V8s will be generally smaller in displacement to achieve better fuel economy. Also, I think a 5.5L is currently being used in the LeMans Corvette. I also read a little while ago that the Gen V V8s would first appear in 2012 in a 2013 model. That would be before the next gen Camaro, so it would be a safe assumption that the next gen Camaro would have a Gen V V8. Considering all this I think 5.5L is as good a guess as any.

[Dr. Show-Me]

While I consider the 5.5 a possibility, I have read that the 6 liter engine would be offered.
I expect a di 4 cylinder for the Camaro as a base engine, a 2.4L, while the Cadillac I expect to have a turbo-charged version as the base. Step-up on each will be V6s, and turboV6s. And V8s for the SS, Z28 and V versions.
Car Guide lists the ATS as weighing 3450 pounds, with a 110 " wheelbase. If that is the case, it's gonna need a substantial amount of horsepower to be competitive with the 3 and C.
Companies are in business to make money, and with the V8 GM can command premium pricing for an inexpensive engine. For me, it's the only engine I would consider.

[nsap]

I expect a turbo 4 as the base engine...based on what I have heard anyway.

[Slideways]

Guide lists the ATS as weighing 3450 pounds, with a 110 " wheelbase. If that is the case, it's gonna need a substantial amount of horsepower to be competitive with the 3 and C.

1) How do they have any idea what a nonexistent car will weigh?
2) An M3 weighs 3,700 lbs anyway.

[Dr. Show-Me]

I would expect they have some insiders who passed on the information. consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2012-cadillac-ats4.htm, read it for yourself.

[Z284ever]

I expect a turbo 4 as the base engine...based on what I have heard anyway.

I think that's probably a good bet.

A while ago, I heard about a strictly I4/V8 engine line up for it. Of course, who knows, it's too early for any of that to gel yet. But it makes some sense, especially if you look at what GM is doing with Regal's engine choices.

Bottom line is, that they need a 4 banger to pull down some great FE numbers, in order to satiate the CAFE beast. And, for marketing reasons, (ie., Mustang), need to have an available V8. I think that you can justify a 4 or turbo 4 at the entry level and a screaming Gen V smallblock as a halo at the top. But how do you justify a V6?

[Z284ever]

Here's what I was looking for. I posted this elsewhere as sort of a fun, speculative shot at what the 6th gen could be like.


1) The Budget GT
Camaro Sport Coupe:
-Standard engine: normally aspirated 2.4L Ecotec. 210 hp.
-Optional engine: turbo 2.0L Ecotec. 285 hp.
-F41 performance package available.
Weight: 3350 -3400 pounds (coupe)


2) The Luxury GT
Camaro SS:
-Standard engine: turbo 2.0L Ecotec. 315 hp.
-Optional engine: Gen V 6.2L V8. 415 hp.
-Various high content options available.
Weight: 3450-3575 pounds. (coupe)


3) The Performance GT
Camaro Z/28
-Specific engine: Gen V 6.2L V8. 465 hp.
-Optional engine: None.
-Specific "Special Performance Package"
-Content and options limited.
Weight: 3395 pounds. (coupe only)