GM Inside News Forum banner

Does Camaro Now Have An Embarrassment Of V8 Performance Riches - With Price To Match?

13K views 125 replies 42 participants last post by  jg95z28 
#1 ·
Starting in MY 2014 the Camaro will have four distinct, (and fairly pricey), V8 performance models. The SS, 1LE, ZL1 and apparently at the top of the food chain, Z/28. We don't really know 2014 final pricing, but let's call it about $34,000 for a base 1SS to over $60,000 for a Z/28.

Has the price of V8 performance gotten out of control for Camaro? The higher end V8 offerings are certainly in Corvette price territory. Is that where Camaro should be positioned? Is that good for the brand? Are consumers ready for a lower cost performance version of the Camaro, with either V6 or V8 power or turbo 4 in the next gen?

Speaking of the next gen car, should GM carry over the same line up, or change it up.


Discuss......
 
#2 ·
An affordable V6 "Track Pack" should be made available to directly compete with the Mustang.
 
#59 ·
I think they should add two more, the 5.3 from the truck as a base, call it the RS or just the base camaro. The other one could be a SS-427 or even make it a little smaller and call it a SS-396 and either have it loaded or make it a purpose built street/strip car with steep rear gears and suspension/tires more set up for 1/4 mile vs the road course. The Camaro has a rather large drag racing heritage so they might as well play that up. I know they do that with the COPO but those cars are not street legal, an SS-427 would be.

I am actually fine with all the diversity in models and so long as they keep the distinction that will be good for the brand.
 
#6 ·
Could or would? Different meanings for sure.

To me, all three should make it with the Z/28 taking an extra year. We know that the Z06 will continue with the new Corvette so there really wont be an issue there.

ZL1? Of course. It'll have to. Not even worth discussing.

1LE really isnt a special engine so not sure why you are including it as there are only 3 distinct models.
 
#7 ·
I think it would be interesting to see a "hardcore" V6 Camaro, its a plug and play option at this point, it would cost almost 0 to do, everything already exists in the Camaro parts bins. It would also be neat if they could sneak a V8 into the base Camarom like an LS, no fogs or RS packages, something like the old 9C1/Special Service Camaro from the 4th gen, special order, fleet type deal, of course some will make it into private hands.
 
#11 ·
The LS7 is definitely going away. ZL1 may go away. I haven't heard any indication that the 5.3 will find it's way into the Camaro, though. It would actually make for a neat budget hot rod. But...we've had this base V8 conversation many times.
 
#12 ·
Has the price of V8 performance gotten out of control for Camaro?
Yes. Historically tuners and special editions have and can fill the niche where the ZL1 and Z/28 currently reside. Where the problem lies is currently Camaro doesn't have an iconic "tuner" like Mustang does with Shelby.

The higher end V8 offerings are certainly in Corvette price territory. Is that where Camaro should be positioned?
Not necessarily. We need to remember that the reason Ford has higher end V8 offerings priced in Corvette price territory is because Ford doesn't have their own Corvette and has to place the Mustang in a position where it covers both the basic ponycar and the high end V8 supercar/musclecar. If Chevrolet did not have the Corvette, it might be necessary to place the Camaro in a similar market. However they do have Corvette, and in-house super Camaros really aren't necessary, provided they can find an "outside" tuner for Camaro to compete with Shelby.

Is that good for the brand?
I don't think it hurts the brand. However it does conflict with the idea that Chevrolet is the affordable every-man's brand.

Are consumers ready for a lower cost performance version of the Camaro, with either V6 or V8 power or turbo 4 in the next gen?
Why not? It has proven successful for the Asian brand ponycars, so why wouldn't it work for Camaro?

Speaking of the next gen car, should GM carry over the same line up, or change it up.
I say change it slightly. First add performance options for the V6 Camaro. (Turbos, and or "track packs".) Make the RS the turbo 4-cylinder Camaro. Keep the V8 Camaro at the upperend and have lots of options across the product line so buyers can personalize their Camaros.
 
#14 ·
Gotta make money. If GM can sell enough ZL1 and Z/28 to justify the development costs, why not, right?

Bad analogy but M-B doesn't seem to be in any rush to slow down the roll out of new models and surely won't as long as they can keep selling them.

Having a big, mean top-of-the-line Camaro adds prestige to the V6 and SS cars the same way a $67k SLK55 by AMG does to the $42k SLK250. It makes people double-take the base car to check if it's the premium model.
 
#16 ·
Corvette and Camaro are two different animals as well. Even if they share a price point, they just dont compete.
Yep. One is a dedicated 2 seater Sports Car while the other is a well handling Hot Rod that can be optioned to race like a sports car. You'll never see a COPO Corvette for instance. It would look ridiculous. Different strokes for different folks. Price matters not in comparison. Both speed and options cost money regardless of what look or style of car you're after.

Just like those who want a cheap Mustang, if you want a cheap Camaro, go buy one used. I bought my daughter a new Z-28 back when she was in highschool as a graduation gift. This was over 20 years ago. I think I paid 12-13k for it? Mustang pricing was about the same. I think gas was 75 cents a gallon at the time and a soda out of a machine was 35 cents. Those days are gone folks. Nothing will be cheap like that again, especially not an automobile.
 
#17 ·
We have not seen the "worried" down sizing with the Gen V engines instead we have seen up sizing as the 4.8L V-8 is dead.

I simply do not see the 5.3L engine making into a car at GM however you never know, LT1 seems to be the lowest performance car V-8 at this moment. Also I do not see the LF3 engine making it in the Camaro if the Camaro has the LT1 engine because they are too close in power to make sense. I do think that it is pretty settled that the 2.0T engine will be the base engine in the 6th generation Camaro. I also think that it is settled that the Camaro will have both the LT1 V-8 engine and a supercharged 600BHP V-8 engine (rumored LT4). GM has had huge success with the Gen V Camaro and will likely not play around with it's formula too much.

The only real question I can see is this, is there space between the base 2.0T and lowest V-8 engine for another engine?. With the 2.0T producing some 275BHP and the LT1 making at least 450BHP will the LFX engine find its way into the Camaro?.
 
#18 ·
I love the fact that there is so many great performing Camaro, but to be honest, they are a little beyond my reach. I'd be interested in a performance V6, especially when you look at the price of something like the Focus ST or BRZ. The Camaro would be a different alternative that could easily hit the same price range (if you held off options) one that, thanks to its big brothers, would likely have a wealth of aftermarket support.

That said, whether this makes sense or not depends on GM's strategy with the Code 130R or some other FWD performance variants in a similar price range. It would be nice if Chevy had something for enthusiasts in the base-Camaro price range, though.
 
#19 ·
I am happy that GM isn't detuning the Camaro so it can't step on the Corvette shoes. I am very curious has to how high performance wise this brand can be taken to. And I only see positives with GM allowing some of their nameplates to have fewer restrictions as to performance, looks, and features just to maintain some archaic hierarchy.
 
#20 ·
As long as the Mustang is in those high price segments then the Camaro needs to be as well. Doesn't matter that Ford doesn't have an equivalent to the Vette. Everyone would just point out how the best Mustang handily beat the best Camaro, nevermind that it is $30,000 less.

Though this does highlight the point that the Mustang and Camaro have really strayed away from their roots of being a cheap car with a big engine. Now they are highly sophisticated vehicles with highly sophisticated engines and are expensive. GM needs to build a new, affordable car - similar to the Toyo/Subaru twins.
 
#21 ·
My take is that they can get away with charging the higher prices (and up to a $60K Z/28) because of the absence of higher-spec C7 models. Since the Stingray is the only choice and people can not get their fix with a GS/Z06/ZR1, they will be able to fill the void with a Camaro for a model year or two until the up-level 'vettes make their return.

Going into the next generation, I doubt you'll see as many variants of the Camaro available, at least to start... probably things will take a similar path as they have with the Gen5 car in terms of introducing new performance models every couple years. I could easily see the Gen6 starting with a base LFX V6, the 3.6L TTV6 as a mid-level (RS), and the LT1 SS. Add an LT4 ZL1 back into the mix a year or two later.
 
#23 ·
I say the TOP DOG models NEED to carry on into the next Gen but wonder if there is a level of confusion in buyers minds as what are they? and for the "BASE" performance model I am thinking of the buyer age group getting older and the case of People on here RE the CODE car and saying buy a cheep Camaro and my issue is that a Cheep Camaro offers nothing to be excited about as even the looks are "neutered" and the handling is "soft" and the "target" buyer would be more interested in hard riding lowered "track pack" setup cars with less "features"
if the Alpha Camaro could offer something like the BRZ and attract another Generation AWAY from Asian cars
 
#24 ·
no, first GM does need a LOW COST CORVETTE, thats the idiot move, and the ZL1 will be more expensive then the Z28, I thought the Z28 is slotted below the ZL1. thust you have the V6/RS-v8SS/RS-z28, then ZL1. The camaro does not need a low cost nothing, not 4 cyl, and no supped up V6, for what a TTv6 would could you can get better FE out a V8, and the maintanance would be less, and performance will be the same.
 
#26 ·
Chuck, I've always subscribed to the ol' Hot Rodder's Axiom:

"If 'some' is good, and 'more' is better, then 'too much' is JUST RIGHT!"

Re: T4/V6 performance versions, now or in the future, please refer to my 2nd post on Page 5 of the "Scott Settlemire" thread:

BTW, there has been a "Z/36" (V6 - NOT the name assigned) performance version of the Gen-5 Camaro floating around for a few years. Was proposed, initially, by a fresh aftermarket outfit back in '09. Has the interest of the TEAM, if not total support, initially. Then the "Meltdown" (and GM dealer contraction) happened, and happened to remove the necessary capital from the plan. And it included "square" forged 19s, and Tier-supplier suspension upgrades, and Tier-supplier unique hood/grilles/spoiler/splitter, and proposed engine performance AND mpg "improvements".
 
#27 ·
so the zr1 is above the z06, but the z28 is above the zl1, that does not make since, but hey GM is all over the place anyway. Does the LS7 outperform the LSA, I thought the LSA was faster, and more HP.
 
#29 · (Edited)
History:

A '69 Z/28 ordered with JL8 4WDB, Cross-ram/2X4s, headers and all the requisite go-fast goodies was beyond the price of a Vette. A COPO 9560 ZL1-engined '69 Camaro was beyond the price of ANY '69 Vette (except a ZL1). Performance ain't cheap, and never was.

But we may, as in '70, have reached our "honkin' V8" zenith. A 33-3500 lb Alpha-based Gen-6 Camaro will provide weight-to-power with hot T4s and TT-V6s, along with vehicle dynamics AND mpg/ecology considerations WAY beyond what we thought possible a very short time ago.
 
#32 ·
Good point Woodie. The 2014 Z/28 is certainly the modern equivalent of a '69 Z/28 fully loaded with all available performance exotica options.
 
#30 · (Edited)
The original Business Case for the Gen-5 Camaro was predicated on a 60-40 split of V6 vs. V8 production. Witness the initial build of all those V6 rental cars that caused soo much consternation. But consumer demand for V8s was insatiable, and the actual split was more like 40-60 V6 to V8.

Moving forward, with the varied changes in the geo-political landscape (i.e. CAFE '16 @ 35.5 mpg etc.), those wanting the rumble of a high-horse V8 are gonna pay. BOTH in initial price AND CAFE-assigned penalties.

Reduce vehicle size, get weight out, lower engine sizes, multi-speed trannies - and pricing penalties - will be de rigeur.

And there's nothing wrong with an under-400 hp Camaro SS V8 that, with reduced vehicle size/weight, outruns a Gen-5 6.2 SS. Build an "LT1-inspired" 5.3, and you're there.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Over the past few days, I've seen a pair of Camaro SS models in bright red, one with black stripes and the other with white. While both looked great driving along, everytime I get close to a Camaro I'm disappointed. What looks good in photos and at a distance, loses its luster up close. The current one's exterior looks way too chunky and the interior is cramped and has some very cheap materials. I can't wait for the next gen, which is about 2 1/2 years away while the next Mustang and new Barracuda look to have a one year head start on it. I know the Camaros are popular and selling well, and I agree that the addition of more hi-perf models is a smart move. That kind of attention from GM will keep buyers interested. The next model, rumored to be noticeably lighter, should be a lot of fun with the turbo I4, V6, and any V8, but I wouldn't install the turbo 2.0 in the current heavy model. I'm with the group that wished for a smaller V8 model as I crave the roar and rumble of a real American V8 but don't need 400+HP for our daily drivers. An RS convertible equipped with a 325HP 5.3L V8 and automatic would be a very appealing cruiser to me.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I'm with the group that wished for a smaller V8 model as I crave the roar and rumble of a real American V8 but don't need 400+HP for our daily drivers. An RS convertible equipped with a 325HP 5.3L V8 and automatic would be a very appealing cruiser to me.
With Gen-5 SBC (read: LT1) technology (DI/VVT/AFM), a "sporty-tuned" 5.3 that will get better mpg than a 6.2 LT1 can safely, and warrantably, produce 375+ hp. Put into a 3500 lb Alpha, that p2w is better than the current Gen-5 SS. And so would its performance capabilities.

The 450+ hp LT1 could then be the next-Gen Z/28 engine, built in quantites and priced closer to the current 1LE, instead of approaching-COPO $tratu$phere.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top