Review: Pontiac G8 GT vs Dodge Charger R/T

[69Firebird400]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

RESERVED (haven't read this thread yet but am subscribing so I can read it later).

That is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen someone do on here in 2 1/2 years...why not just comment in order after you have read the thread instead of sticking a placeholder on the first page?

Originally Posted by powervette

no way I would consider one of those, I can get a splendid Hyundai Genesis for this price (see another main page thread)

First, the Genesis V6 starts at $33,000 and the V8 starts at $38,000. So that's about $6,000 more expensive for the V6 and $8,000 more expensive for the V8. I don't think they're really direct competitors, anyway. Motor Trend drove a Genesis briefly, and they said that it was a good car, but not a performance car. My guess, without having driven either and only spending a few minutes sitting in a parked G8 GT, is that the G8 will be the better drive and the Genesis will be more comfortable.

Also, I have to tip my hat to Hyundai on the fuel economy of the Genesis - 28 mpg highway in the 300 horsepower V6 and 25 mpg highway in the V8 is really impressive IMO.

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by ptmeyer84

correct me if i'm wrong, but the hood scoops on the G8 are functional. They may not feed air into the engine but I thought they provided a cooling effect to the engine bay. Anybody else hear this?

The thing that is most effective at cooling the engine is the radiator. Dumping in air BEHIND the radiator (thus reducing flow THROUGH the radiator) isn't going to help with cooling. What might help in that respect, is turning the scoops around, so they can vent the hot, higher pressure air OUT of the engine compartment.

Using scoops such as the G8's for feeding cooler (unheated by the radiator) air to the engine WOULD be beneficial, but you just don't see that very often. The additional parts, the space they take up, the cost, and the extra weight, just don't seem to be worth the couple of extra horsepower that would bring.

[vanshmack]

Originally Posted by racy

Owning both a Vette and a 300C, I'll agree generally to your post. However, the Hemi has an undisputably better low end torque curve than the Gen IV. There's no arguing the with the addictive rush one gets from the seemingly endless pull of a revving LSx motor, but they are indeed lacking down low.

Conversely, the HEMIs got it down low and begin to nosedive up top. I'd like to believe this is mainly due to the cam profile, but the modding for the new HEMIs aren't mature enough to really set any verdict yet.

I know this is your observation, but I have a different experience to compare.

When I buying my 2000 Z28 with the LS1/4L60-E combo, I remember thinking on the test drive, "this doesn't seem much quicker than my old '88 Trans Am GTA with the 5.7 TPI." The main difference, it seemed, was at highway speeds, where the LS1 just kept pulling. I was convinced that my TPI GTA would have probably killed my LS1 in the first 330 or 660 of the quarter-mile. Well, the seat-of-the-pants can be deceiving, as the LS1 ran quicker times from 60-feet all the way through the end of the quarter-mile. This should be no shock to any GM fan with a sense of performance history, however, I thought the TPI car felt stronger off-idle and up to about 2500 RPMs. The reality was much different, though.

The fact is, the LSx motors have very flat torque curves, which lends a certain deceptive to quality to acceleration. There's no torque spike and no drop off to give the impression of fierce acceleration, and I suspect that you're experiencing the same sensation when you state that LSx motors are "lacking" in low-end torque. Also any dyno graph would confirm that there's no noticeable shortage of torque in an LSx when compared to a HEMI.

I suggest you get your butt dyno recalibrated!

[chakis24]

"Inside, the G8’s mostly black décor is relieved by silver trim and varied textures. We quickly tired of the oil and battery readouts at the top of the center stack—why monitor the battery in a nonhybrid car?—and Holden’s cruise control isn’t quite as user-friendly as those in GM’s North American products."

ohhh, i dunno, in case the alternator craps out you can see your battery losing voltage, giving you time to pull over safely instead of having your car crap out in the middle of the highway.

good review though, i just hope the sales numbers go as hoped- the dealer near me has at least three (one bright orange with black stripes and black wheels that is probably way over list that has been sitting more 3 weeks now)- the others have been there only a week or so. and i actually saw one on the road. they look classy. this one's on the list for a future car.

[racy]

Originally Posted by vanshmack

I know this is your observation, but I have a different experience to compare.

When I buying my 2000 Z28 with the LS1/4L60-E combo, I remember thinking on the test drive, "this doesn't seem much quicker than my old '88 Trans Am GTA with the 5.7 TPI." The main difference, it seemed, was at highway speeds, where the LS1 just kept pulling. I was convinced that my TPI GTA would have probably killed my LS1 in the first 330 or 660 of the quarter-mile. Well, the seat-of-the-pants can be deceiving, as the LS1 ran quicker times from 60-feet all the way through the end of the quarter-mile. This should be no shock to any GM fan with a sense of performance history, however, I thought the TPI car felt stronger off-idle and up to about 2500 RPMs. The reality was much different, though.

The fact is, the LSx motors have very flat torque curves, which lends a certain deceptive to quality to acceleration. There's no torque spike and no drop off to give the impression of fierce acceleration, and I suspect that you're experiencing the same sensation when you state that LSx motors are "lacking" in low-end torque. Also any dyno graph would confirm that there's no noticeable shortage of torque in an LSx when compared to a HEMI.

I suggest you get your butt dyno recalibrated!

I agree with you regarding the butt dyno. But when I say low end torque, I am talking from between 700rpm and 1800rpm. The LSx engines don't produce. Typically, we see chassis dynos starting at 2500/3000 rpm, and like you say, the torque curve is long, fat and flat. But if you ever get a change to see full range dyno numbers (unlikely a chassis dyno), you'll see that the low end numbers of the LSx engines are dogs.

The reason the 60 ft. times are faster is because you are launching at high rpms. Let's see the same if you were launching at idle. My old Camaro 305 TB injection had more torque at idle than my '02 SS LS1. Granted the 305 was nothing in comparison, but from idle, it was a torquer.

These new HEMIs also have good torque from idle. They have too be. Look at what they were designed to be in: 4200 lb. cars, and 6000 lb trucks.

[Zr1_Boi]

The G8 is better than charger to me interior looks and feels cheap the 5 speed is a joke and cant keep up with the hemi. The G8 is gunned for the 5 series Magazines dont want to admit it but the G8 is probaly better than the 5er but there not gonna say it and G8 is sophisticated and some what classy with the 6speed 6.0 liter the charger is a redneck wild child. The Srt is ok But the LS3 with a real manual trans is gonna murder the Srt8 even if it does have more power.

[Rick_VT]

[quote=TruckMan;1409450]If it had a Nav system and memory seats it would be on my list of cars to look at next year. Those are both deal breakers for me. Especially the memory seats. I'm 6' and my wife is 5'1". Seat adjusting is a big issue.


So get your wife to read the map while sitting in the passenger seat, problem solved now you can go get your G8.

[joeaeguy21]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

If it had a Nav system and memory seats it would be on my list of cars to look at next year. Those are both deal breakers for me. Especially the memory seats. I'm 6' and my wife is 5'1". Seat adjusting is a big issue.

But I'm glad to see the Pontiac being competitive. I've driven the Middle East Caprice version of these for several years and they're fun cars to drive - even the V6 rental versions.

Its not like maps havent been around, lets see forever, so a lack of navi is really not a big deal

And memory seats come on how lazy are you! Is it really that hard to take 30 seconds to readjust the seat. It must have killed people in the past to have done it over and over again. Deal breaker my a$$

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by CrimsonTider

Our dealership has six G8s just up the street. Two V8s & four V6s. They are lined up front and center so everyone can see them. Problem is they have been sitting there for at least 2 weeks while the Vibes & G6s are flying off the lot.

Sadly for Pontiac, this is finally the right car but at the wrong time. Better get one now for I fear they won't be here long.........

GM said they were selling "briskly."
I don't know what that means. Anyone got a GM to English translator?

[vanshmack]

Originally Posted by racy

The reason the 60 ft. times are faster is because you are launching at high rpms. Let's see the same if you were launching at idle. My old Camaro 305 TB injection had more torque at idle than my '02 SS LS1. Granted the 305 was nothing in comparison, but from idle, it was a torquer.

The launch techniques were no different. Both cars had automatics. The LS1 car had 3.08 gears while the TPI had 3.23s...Really not much of a difference.

Now I will grant you, I've not seen any off-idle dyno sheets from LS1, TPI, or HEMI motors, so I can't comment. I would suspect that you are describing the aggressive tip-in of the HEMI, as the same term would describe the early TPI cars. I'll concede this point to you because the LSx motors don't even compare in this respect. The HEMI and early TPI cars have much longer intake runners that does the typical LSx, which gives you the real snappy tip-in. The thing is, the LSx makes this up very quickly in the real world, so I just can't agree with your assertion that the "LSxs are dogs" down low.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by osv_alero

Now if GM can take this and make it into a mid-size and compact car, Pontiac really will be the lower cost BMW that GM needs it to be.

Bingo. If they can do this to the G6 and G4 - the real cars with a potential for high volume sales, GM would have a fantastic brand, but they hold back, and all evidence points to that continuing. Give Pontiac a trio of products on Alpha - and they might, might make a case for existence.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by rumble bee

This sounds like a biased review but I am not going to cause a problem on a GM site.

It sounds like, providing that this article is true, that GM is really stepping up. If they can out compete the HEMI then that must be a solid car. However, the HEMI is the powerplant of my Rumble Bee Ram 1500 and it is quick on the throttle. I try to baby it but when you hear the HEMI roar it creates an addicition for itself so I find myslef buring a little too much rubber and a little too much gas then I should. So if the HEMI is so great in the bulky Ram 1500, I am in awe that it was out done in a car.

Cause all the trouble you like, you're one of the GOOD GUYS. Then again, I'm not a Mod, and not likely to be one in the future LMAO!

I for one, have little faith in the objectivity of CD, so you may well be right in that the Charger should be the winner over our G8. We'd have to drive them ourselves, but I for one am more than willing to admit that you could well be right.

Am I happy that a Pontiac won something? Hells, ya!

[stevecmh]

i wish i had this car..

i would def. want it but the mpgs...

[69Firebird400]

Originally Posted by joeaeguy21

Its not like maps havent been around, lets see forever, so a lack of navi is really not a big deal

And memory seats come on how lazy are you! Is it really that hard to take 30 seconds to readjust the seat. It must have killed people in the past to have done it over and over again. Deal breaker my a$$

Fortunately, everyone has different tastes and preferences in automobiles. Otherwise, how boring would it be if we all liked the same color and type of car?

By the way, does the map you're talking about point out where you are on the map as you travel? Because I'm not an idiot and I can read a map, but it's pretty unsafe to do while driving alone, and hard to follow one by yourself without pulling over. On Wednesday, a back road that I've been commuting on was closed, and I wasn't familiar with any of the other ones nearby. Fortunately, it was my trip home and timing wasn't as important, but I had to totally guess which direction to go in (fortunately I have a good sense of direction). A nav system sure would have been nice to have to point me in the right direction.

Now, a Garmin-type system versus the factory system is a different argument. Garmin does nearly everything the factory system does (plus some things it won't do), but isn't integrated nicely into the interior design and could be a invitation to thieves. Plus, the factory system generally gives you stuff like a better trip computer, more radio/XM info, etc. on the display.

One of our vehicles has factory nav and one does not - I will definitely get it on my next car. It's not right for everyone, but it's nice to have the choice, especially in a $30,000 car, when you can get it in a stinking 2009 Corolla.

About the memory seats - fortunately, my wife and I have about the same inseam length, so it's not an issue for us, but it sounds like this guy has more than just an issue of front-back adjustment. I can appreciate where he's coming from...if he has to move the seat down, back, and angle the backrest differently than his wife prefers, and there's no memory setting, that's a big pain in the ass. Most likely, they'll each be uncomfortable for a while until they adjust and re-adjust the settings to the perfect spot.

[rumble bee]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

Im sorry but you must be smoking something....

The G8 GT makes a good amount of more horsepower, is a good amount lighter, and has an extra gear how could the R/T keep up with it?

Maybe if it was a real HEMI I guess.......

The HEMI in the Rumble Bee is the exact same HEMI thats in the Charger and let me inform you that that engine can get up and go, probably even moreso in the car then in the cumbersome Ram 1500. So GM might have outdone the HEMI, but that is not something to take lightly.