Pontiac G3 NOT coming to US...yet.

[K Dawg ONE]

Wow. Just wow.

"Kill everything that doesnt make atleast 300hp and is rear drive with production Nav, Bluetooth, no fender vents, and I want the car to change its own oil! KIll pontiac ecept for solstice and G8 and plese give me a firebird too!"

Great plan! This way, when you go to buy a Pontiac next year, you wont be able too cause GM will be bankrupt.

Yeah, G8 and Solstice sell soooooooo well (roll eyes) and Im sure Firebird will be like Neo from the Matrix for Gm (roll eyes)

FWIW:

GM Enthusist: Can see the entire picture. Cares about GM as company including its profitability, reputation, products, and future.

Car Enthusist: Excited about something shiny that grabs their intention for about 8.6 seconds. Complains about vehicles theyll never buy anyways including pricing, options, styling, etc, and uses these as reasons to not 'buy' that vehicle. When granted their wish the following year, an enthusist will continue to not 'buy' that vehicle as the options werent available at launch. The enthusists usally drives a Kia Rio anayways and not a GM

Too bad for us that most of the people on this site are the later....

[LeSabre]

The G3 is an abomination in the 1st place. It should have never existed anywhere as a Pontiac. They should have given this POS to Saturn to hold it over for the meantime til they get the new Corsa to NA, not to Pontiac.

The G5 is a mistake unto itself & the evidence of a lie by GM/Pontiac having told the Public that Pontiac was not going to get a version of the Cobalt. Lying ass-holes!! Pontiac coward to its dealers complaining of not having an entry level car when they still had the Vibe. The Vibe was to fill this niche.


.

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

The G3 is an abomination in the 1st place. It should have never existed anywhere as a Pontiac. They should have given this POS to Saturn to hold it over for the meantime til they get the new Corsa to NA, not to Pontiac.

The G5 is a mistake unto itself & the evidence of a lie by GM/Pontiac having told the Public that Pontiac was not going to get a version of the Cobalt. Lying ass-holes!! Pontiac coward to its dealers complaining of not having an entry level car when they still had the Vibe. The Vibe was to fill this niche.


.

How is the Vibe an entry-level when option for option its about $4k more than the G5?

Again, sure, get rid of our G5 and G3 and us PBG dealers can sit around and play cards all day while people go buy affordable entry-level vehicles over at Chevy or Toyota....good thinking

[Drive571]

It's a branding issue. Ideally, you would sit around and play cards all day while customers buy their cheap wheels at Chevy. Then, when customers came seeking affordable performance, it'd be the Chevy guys' turn to twiddle their thumbs while you sell.

Maybe you could shed some light on the subject, K Dawg, but it seems like at least some of Pontiac's troubles come from B-P-G dealers' inability to "share" products. If Chevy gets an econocar--whether it's a good one or not--B-P-G dealers want it, too, and then they wonder why people don't see Pontiacs as desirable.

People are less willing to spend $30K on a G8 if buying a bargain-bin G5 or G3 gets you into the same "club." It's the same reason Toyota has a much easier time selling Lexus LX 470s than Toyota Land Cruisers, and why Volkswagen couldn't move Phaetons to save their life.

[longislander]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

The G5 is a mistake unto itself .
.

That "mistake" recorded a 17% sales INCREASE in July which was a way-down month for GM as a whole.
Maybe if GM had spent even ONE advertising dollar on this "mistake" sales would have been stronger from the get-go. I FINALLY saw a print-ad for the G5 just last week...part of Pontiac's "3 over 30mpg" campaign touting the car's excellent fuel mileage - and now I read about this 17% sales increase. Wonder if there's a connection...hmmm...

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by Drive571

It's a branding issue. Ideally, you would sit around and play cards all day while customers buy their cheap wheels at Chevy. Then, when customers came seeking affordable performance, it'd be the Chevy guys' turn to twiddle their thumbs while you sell.

You are correct on that one, however, as much as id love to sell G8's all day long (we are one of the largest PBG dealers in Ontario and weve only sold 2 since we got them 6 weeks ago), it wouldnt pay my bills. Cars for transportation vs. cars that are fun account for 99% of our PBG sales. I would want to sell performance only vehicles for a living as much as id want to be an a/c technition at the North Pole.

Maybe you could shed some light on the subject, K Dawg, but it seems like at least some of Pontiac's troubles come from B-P-G dealers' inability to "share" products. If Chevy gets an econocar--whether it's a good one or not--B-P-G dealers want it, too, and then they wonder why people don't see Pontiacs as desirable.

Thats correct too. I can cross-lease Chevys (well, not anymore, lol) and can run finance deals as referral deals through a Chevy dealer, but, not having the vehicle to touch and feel makes that very hard. They will just buy at the dealer they are test driving it at since prices from one dealer to another are very close (no dealer is gonna loose a deal over a couple of hundred dollars). My job then becomes making a lasting impression so after the test drive a Malibu at the Chevy dealer that they come back and buy from me and I bring them one in.

People are less willing to spend $30K on a G8 if buying a bargain-bin G5 or G3 gets you into the same "club." It's the same reason Toyota has a much easier time selling Lexus LX 470s than Toyota Land Cruisers, and why Volkswagen couldn't move Phaetons to save their life.

I see your point on that, but, as much as we GM fans see rebages being just minor tweeks, its the minor tweeks that the general customer sees as a reason to buy one over the other. For instance, the G5 coupe does not get the quad-round taillights like the Cobalt and MOST of my customers prefer the more-subtle (aka 'Cleaner looking') tails of the Pontiac.

[jaywestfall]

OK with that as long as it means we get the Alpha G6 sooner.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

GM Enthusist: Can see the entire picture. Cares about GM as company including its profitability, reputation, products, and future.

Bingo. Many here are after the shiny baubles, just like a magpie. I am on record here as supporting the G5 and G3 as viable alternatives to other manufacturers, and not some "ripoff" of another division's cars. These cars support themselves, and I prefer them to the Chevy versions (although my Mom's Cobalt with the round tail lenses...very Chevy, very cool).

And people forget that while Pontiac was selling GTOs and Firebirds in the halcyon days of the late 60s, and early 70s, the VAST majority of people who entered BPG showrooms bought Parisiennes, Catalinas, LeSabres, LeMans', Wildcats, Venturas and Skylarks.

GTOs brought 'em in, but they went home with a Catalina or a Lemans. And that supported the people that worked at Turpin Pontiac in Ottawa, just as it does at Dave Wheaton now.

2 out of 3 of ours are Pontiacs, and that ain't bad. The other is a rebadged Caprice...I think they called it a "Delta 88" or something.

[blkwrxsti]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

Wow. Just wow.

FWIW:

GM Enthusist: Can see the entire picture. Cares about GM as company including its profitability, reputation, products, and future.

Car Enthusist: Excited about something shiny that grabs their intention for about 8.6 seconds. Complains about vehicles theyll never buy anyways including pricing, options, styling, etc, and uses these as reasons to not 'buy' that vehicle. When granted their wish the following year, an enthusist will continue to not 'buy' that vehicle as the options werent available at launch. The enthusists usally drives a Kia Rio anayways and not a GM

Too bad for us that most of the people on this site are the later....

Too bad for us that the folks running GM are neither...

I feel for you K-Dawg, being a pontiac dealer in Canada when Pontiac is clearly about to shut their doors can't be easy. But you're probably misunderstanding my point.

Why can honda's fit be frugal and sporty, while Pontiac's G3 is simply "cheap".

Why wouldn't GM give the HHR SS and the Cobalt SS to Pontiac?

Why do dealers and GM marketing short-sightedly chase volume at the expense of brand image - therby ensuring that demand for their cars and future margins will remain low? I think it's sad that the main reason that people you talk to buy a pontiac G5 instead of a cobalt is that they like the tail-lights better (and btw - the fastest car they can buy is not as fast as the Cobalt). That's just brand mis-management.

Don't you think the sort of customers that bought a G5 GXP would be more likely to buy well-designed accessories for their cars? Don't you think they'd be more likely to have belts replaced and regular maintainence done? Same thing applies to the HHR SS and the Vibe. Why is it that Chevy's hot hatch looks like an old milk truck and gets around the Ring faster than an NSX, while pontiac's looks like a toyota and might lose a drag race to a camry hybrid? I know these things cost money - but GM's actions seem to be aimed at doing as little with pontiac as necessary while Chevy gets all the good stuff. Pontiac's don't need to be firebreathing, wasteful, heavy RWD cars - that's not really their mission either (if I had my way that'd be a line of Buicks). Pontiac does need to stand for sport though. Do you really think you or the folks running GM are "GM enthusiasts" as you defined them? Do you really think that selling G3's, G5's, Vibes, or insisting thatG8 doesn't need NAV is good for GM's long term profitability, reputation, products, and future?

If you Canadian dealers asked for the G3, you guys really need to think about what to ask for. I'd dare say that you guys don't fall into either of the categories you described above - you're just thinking about next months numbers at your dealership, while they guys at the Chevy store are looking for ways to take care of your customers after you're gone...

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by jaywestfall

OK with that as long as it means we get the Alpha G6 sooner.

I think that was killed a LONG time ago...

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by blkwrxsti

I'd dare say that you guys don't fall into either of the categories you described above - you're just thinking about next months numbers at your dealership, while they guys at the Chevy store are looking for ways to take care of your customers after you're gone...

Ive been seeling cars for 4 years now (1 year was split between a used lot and the last 3 have been with GM).

I am both a Car Enthusist and a GM Enthusist.

Im 27 and worked in a factory from 17 till I was about 23. Some weekends were spent at the track pitting for my friends car or my borther in laws Chevy II. The weekends I wasnt pitting, I would be at one of the many car shows in Ontario, Quebec, Ohio, or wherever in what ever my show car was at the time or at least showing with someone from club. Durring the week, at nights, after working at the plant, I ran my own business (at first, an online parts supplier called UNDERGROUND-HIGHWAY.com which was then followed by my physical shop '5iVE19 Customs'.

Now, I am currently building a bagged (and soon to be bodydropped) 95 Jimmy 2wd (that i brought in from the US since only 4wd was available in canada from 95+).

I beleive that qualifies me as being a car enthusist.

After 'wasting away' in the factory, I decided to do something else. Having ran my own business untill it consumed too much of my time (actually resulting in a 6 year relationship ending) and loving cars, i decided to sell cars.

I eventually settled at a PBG store where I am now. I attend every product training session, I read every article regarding GM, I own GM stock, I work 60+ hours a week at my store, and I defend GM to the very end (logically, not emotionally) and I LOVE WHAT I DO! I care about GM and its success as a business not only for my paycheck but so that a piece of Americana does not die like Packard and Oldsmobile. I am a businessman and to the 100 customers a year I sell vehicles to, to them, I AM THE FACE OF GM! If I dont know my product, its GM's fault. If there is a problem with the vehicle, I field the call about the breakage, not GM. I am the front line of General Motors as are the 1000's of sales men and women in the 392 PBG dealers in Canada and the hundreds more dealers in United States and abroad. As much as I try to operate daily with as much integrity and enthusiasm as possible, to quote, "General Motors is not in the business of selling cars, it is in the business of making money". If I have to sell the ugliest of crap cars containing lawnmower engines to ensure the survival of General Motors and by doing so, be allowed to continue paying my bills, then so be it.

Your right. Im not a GM Enthusist.....I AM GENERAL MOTORS

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by Drive571

It's a branding issue. Ideally, you would sit around and play cards all day while customers buy their cheap wheels at Chevy. Then, when customers came seeking affordable performance, it'd be the Chevy guys' turn to twiddle their thumbs while you sell.

Maybe you could shed some light on the subject, K Dawg, but it seems like at least some of Pontiac's troubles come from B-P-G dealers' inability to "share" products. If Chevy gets an econocar--whether it's a good one or not--B-P-G dealers want it, too, and then they wonder why people don't see Pontiacs as desirable.

People are less willing to spend $30K on a G8 if buying a bargain-bin G5 or G3 gets you into the same "club." It's the same reason Toyota has a much easier time selling Lexus LX 470s than Toyota Land Cruisers, and why Volkswagen couldn't move Phaetons to save their life.

You're right that it's a branding issue, but GM has very little ability to move Pontiac up-market. They have something like 2000 dealerships, not enough advertising, and are positioned below Buick (who only starts at ~$22K).

The real problem here is that the Aveo is pretty mediocre. If it was a good car, GM could sell a ton more of them by rebadging them as Pontiacs.

[mot76]

I don't think the issue here is that being the performance division, Pontiac doesn't need a econo box like the G3, it's just that they could use something better (less cheap) looking than than that thing. Why is it when they build a small car, it has to look so bland? Big headlights alone don't make it. Gas mileage is great but I don't want to have to sacrifice by driving a boring looking car. Now, the trio of small Chevys that GM showed at the Auto Shows are very promising. They actually looked fun to drive. Stop just showing these cars and build them. The time is now. Even if they made one into a Pontiac, I could live with that.
And like a few others said, there's nothing wrong with Pontiac having a small car to get people to come in and check it out(maybe fist time buyer) and then notice what other cars Pontiac has to offer.

[TimR]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

After 'wasting away' in the factory, I decided to do something else. Having ran my own business untill it consumed too much of my time (actually resulting in a 6 year relationship ending) and loving cars, i decided to sell cars.

You should import a few later model GTO's, lots of people interested but the hassles and time involved can be frustrating. Probably make some money too if you are reasonable with pricing...

[Drive571]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

Thats correct too. I can cross-lease Chevys (well, not anymore, lol) and can run finance deals as referral deals through a Chevy dealer, but, not having the vehicle to touch and feel makes that very hard. They will just buy at the dealer they are test driving it at since prices from one dealer to another are very close (no dealer is gonna loose a deal over a couple of hundred dollars). My job then becomes making a lasting impression so after the test drive a Malibu at the Chevy dealer that they come back and buy from me and I bring them one in.

K Dawg, thanks for the post. Interesting commentary from "the inside."