Pontiac G3 Comes State-Side!

[Driver Tom]

Did anyone notice that the EPA numbers for the Aveo are up for 2009?

Now 27/34 with the manual tranny, up from 24/34. Of coarse, the Cobalt XFE is 25/37...

[AndrewGS]

Originally Posted by Driver Tom

Did anyone notice that the EPA numbers for the Aveo are up for 2009?

Now 27/34 with the manual tranny, up from 24/34. Of coarse, the Cobalt XFE is 25/37...

It got a revised engine, but no one mentions that.

[Millefune]

The XFE's numbers also come from special tires, don't they? Just pack those onto the Aveo/G3.

[casket_demon]

Maybe we could think of the G3 as Pontiac's 1 series;since Pontiac is considereda poor mans BMW and all.

[LeSabre]

I, along w/many other people don't think of or compare Pontiac as being a "poor man's BMW". Its something that is just stupid to begin with. A Pontiac is what it is, a Pontiac. Regardless if a given model is a blatant rebadge or not of Chevy or Holden, or if it's a platform mate.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by casket_demon

Maybe we could think of the G3 as Pontiac's 1 series;since Pontiac is considereda poor mans BMW and all.

Pontiac should be a poor man's BMW IIMO. But only the Solstice and G8 achieve that, the rest of the line up does not.

[casket_demon]

I don't agree either but, this is what Lutz said Pontiac was to be before Pontiac's fall and the G3 comment was meant as a joke...sheesh.

[LeSabre]

Pontiac was never a BMW contender ever, in the 1st place. Pontiac was never & will never be on the same tier in any regard as BMW. It was a stupid comment Lutz made. He was making Pontiac out to be something it wasn't. I am not saying that Pontiac shouldn't be a performace brand(again), but it will never be on the same level as BMW. That is Cadillac's territory to intrude upon.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

Pontiac was never a BMW contender ever, in the 1st place. Pontiac was never & will never be on the same tier in any regard as BMW. It was a stupid comment Lutz made. He was making Pontiac out to be something it wasn't. I am not saying that Pontiac shouldn't be a performace brand(again), but it will never be on the same level as BMW. That is Cadillac's territory to intrude upon.

It's not a matter of competing against BMW and never was. It's a matter of getting people that lust after Bimmers (like me), but can't afford them to go "hey, you know what? I can get a Pontiac, and it's got the get up and go and some of the handling of a BMW, but I can afford it, sa-weet, I'll take one!" Hence the "poor man's" before it. Cadillac is supposed to actually compete with BMW and is doing a decent job of it right now, but it's also taking on Benz and Lexus and nobody is going to call Pontiac a poor man's Benz or Lexus. They say it for BMW because it's sport oriented luxury, while Pontiac is just sport oriented, or at least is supposed to be.

I want a 5-series (especially M5) in the worst way, either that or a CTS (OK, I want a CTS for daily driving, but I'd love an M5 as a toy). No way can I afford either of those right now, but when my truck is paid off, or close to it, if I could get a Pontiac with similar characteristics, I'd be all over it. I'd love a G6, that was just a smaller version of the G8. Maybe a cheaper Sigma mate, or something like a 4-door Camaro. I doubt they could make Sigma cheap enough for Pontiac, though. Does Holden have anything smaller than the Commodore?


(hmmm, how come Firefox spell checker red flags Camaro, but not Camry or Corolla? They're all made-up car names.)

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

It's not a matter of competing against BMW and never was. It's a matter of getting people that lust after Bimmers (like me), but can't afford them to go "hey, you know what? I can get a Pontiac, and it's got the get up and go and some of the handling of a BMW, but I can afford it, sa-weet, I'll take one!" Hence the "poor man's" before it. Cadillac is supposed to actually compete with BMW and is doing a decent job of it right now, but it's also taking on Benz and Lexus and nobody is going to call Pontiac a poor man's Benz or Lexus. They say it for BMW because it's sport oriented luxury, while Pontiac is just sport oriented, or at least is supposed to be.

I want a 5-series (especially M5) in the worst way, either that or a CTS (OK, I want a CTS for daily driving, but I'd love an M5 as a toy). No way can I afford either of those right now, but when my truck is paid off, or close to it, if I could get a Pontiac with similar characteristics, I'd be all over it. I'd love a G6, that was just a smaller version of the G8. Maybe a cheaper Sigma mate, or something like a 4-door Camaro. I doubt they could make Sigma cheap enough for Pontiac, though. Does Holden have anything smaller than the Commodore?


(hmmm, how come Firefox spell checker red flags Camaro, but not Camry or Corolla? They're all made-up car names.)

LOL! That is a good question!


"Poor man's" has & is a negative connotation & is also suggesting that "Pontiac" or whatever is 2nd rate or worse, which isn't a good thing either.
So IMO, its not a good way to convert the public's perception of a brand that isn't perceived well.
Its basically saying that one is willing to settle for a Pontiac when they really want, say, a BMW. Thus settling for less. Regardless of their financial situation. If one wants a BMW, they should do what they have to(taking into consideration of all other financial needs) to get themselves one.
Unless it is a Pontiac that one really wants in the 1st place. Then they would not be settling at all b/c they got what they wanted.

Of course, some people are willing to settle for something less than what they really want or can afford & that is fine to. In the end its all up to the person(s) paying for it.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

LOL! That is a good question!


"Poor man's" has & is a negative connotation & is also suggesting that "Pontiac" or whatever is 2nd rate or worse, which isn't a good thing either.
So IMO, its not a good way to convert the public's perception of a brand that isn't perceived well.
Its basically saying that one is willing to settle for a Pontiac when they really want, say, a BMW. Thus settling for less. Regardless of their financial situation. If one wants a BMW, they should do what they have to(taking into consideration of all other financial needs) to get themselves one.
Unless it is a Pontiac that one really wants in the 1st place. Then they would not be settling at all b/c they got what they wanted.

Of course, some people are willing to settle for something less than what they really want or can afford & that is fine to. In the end its all up to the person(s) paying for it.

Ya, but I'll have my Bimmer one day, but maybe I'll settle for a Pontiac for now and when I'm ready to move up that ladder, maybe I'll opt for a Cadillac instead of the BMW since I had a GM car and liked it (hopefully). The whole GM system always was and should be set-up to keep people in its brands as they go through the stages of their lives. Whether the words "poor boy" lend the lower class image, or GM's whole make and model structure do, it's there either way. I have no problem settling for a Pontiac when I'm in my 20's, and a year out of school. I shouldn't be driving a BMW, or Cadillac yet anyway, but I will eventually. But I have some humility...most (not all) of the "douche bags" that drive BMWs don't. (Don't blame me for the BMW driver stereotype, I didn't make it up. And it was proven to me this weekend, when I got edged out of line by a 535i while merging into the Detroit/Windsor tunnel )

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Ya, but I'll have my Bimmer one day, but maybe I'll settle for a Pontiac for now and when I'm ready to move up that ladder, maybe I'll opt for a Cadillac instead of the BMW since I had a GM car and liked it (hopefully). The whole GM system always was and should be set-up to keep people in its brands as they go through the stages of their lives. Whether the words "poor boy" lend the lower class image, or GM's whole make and model structure do, it's there either way. I have no problem settling for a Pontiac when I'm in my 20's, and a year out of school. I shouldn't be driving a BMW, or Cadillac yet anyway, but I will eventually. But I have some humility...most (not all) of the "douche bags" that drive BMWs don't. (Don't blame me for the BMW driver stereotype, I didn't make it up. And it was proven to me this weekend, when I got edged out of line by a 535i while merging into the Detroit/Windsor tunnel )

This was Alfred P. Sloan's(Jr.) idea of what he called "A car for every purse and purpose". An automotive brand ladder system for every customer depending on their given income. Though wants/desires & loyalty to a specific brand could hold them to that given GM brand if they didn't want to move up the GM brand ladder.

Some say that this "Car for every purse & purpose" couldn't/doesn't work anymore, But I am not completely convinced. I think if this idea of Sloan's was tweaked/modified for today's marketplace it could still be effective.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

This was Alfred P. Sloan's(Jr.) idea of what he called "A car for every purse and purpose". An automotive brand ladder system for every customer depending on their given income. Though wants/desires & loyalty to a specific brand could hold them to that given GM brand if they didn't want to move up the GM brand ladder.

Some say that this "Car for every purse & purpose" couldn't/doesn't work anymore, But I am not completely convinced. I think if this idea of Sloan's was tweaked/modified for today's marketplace it could still be effective.

I completely agree. But I think for it to work GM needs to start over with it's dealer network (if only that were possible ) and cut the number of stores and make each new one a GM Superstore so to speak. Right now they are mostly competing against each other more so than against other automaker's stores. I think Chevy and Cadillac should be the only 2 full line brands and the rest need to simply fill niches in the market, which means of course they can't survive on niche cars alone...which brings us back to why this Pontiac G3 even came into existance.

(see how I wrapped that all up nice and tidy, and brought us back to the start? ) [/endthread]

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

I completely agree. But I think for it to work GM needs to start over with it's dealer network (if only that were possible ) and cut the number of stores and make each new one a GM Superstore so to speak. Right now they are mostly competing against each other more so than against other automaker's stores. I think Chevy and Cadillac should be the only 2 full line brands and the rest need to simply fill niches in the market, which means of course they can't survive on niche cars alone...which brings us back to why this Pontiac G3 even came into existance.

(see how I wrapped that all up nice and tidy, and brought us back to the start? ) [/endthread]

OMGoddess!!!!

[Cadillac 502]

I guess they're moving on the theory of 'spreading the wealth'. It's not just the idea of moving the aveo to Pontiac that's disgracing but the fact that Chevy has to sell the throw-away car too Reminds me of Honda... of coarse, ALL their cars are throw away Lol!