Meet Your 2010 Pontiac Lineup; ONE MODEL!

[imcgary]

Originally Posted by big swede

That's a total slap in the face to all Pontiac enthusiasts. I would say it's a blatent F U to all of those who have supported GM over the years, but I can no longer give them credit for planning anything, good or bad. Totally pathetic.

Does Toyota even sell the Matrix anymore?

Yes they still sell the Matrix, although not in near the quantity as the Vibe.

My question is if they keep the Matrix how much more is it going to cost without the vibe to help offset the overhead cost?

[imcgary]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

Maybe in your book but not in mine and many others. For those of us who have invested a true passion for this brand it is nothing but pissing on our graves. We are already dead, why rub it in?



You are right about the first part, the '10 MY is truly nothing as for the second part no it is not a fitting end to a storied and proud performance past, it is nothing short of a soulless number-crunching executive decision devoid of ANY understanding of what made Pontiac what it once was, ITS DEVOTED ENTHUSIAST OWNERS. They've burned the bridge to us, so why shouldn't I find a new place to build a bridge to?

Have any of you considered that if they did not kill Pontiac then the company as a whole would DIE? So what would you prefer no Pontiac or no Pontiac, Cadillac, Buick, GMC or Chevy!

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by BurninrubberGT

97-03 gp- gtp had so much promise, but 240 out of a s/c v6? turbo 4's make more...thank go the aftermarket boomed for the car allowing enthusiests to wake up the motor, gm never understood what that car could of been

Seriously? You're saying that wasn't enough?...in 1997? What are you comparing, the 1997 motor to 2009 motors?

In 1997 the Japanese manufacturers were pulling about 190-200 hp out of their V6s, on premium fuel, with less torque than the regular 3800. I'd say 240 hp for 1997 was pretty good, considering some others couldn't/didn't really match the hp output of the 3800SC until about the 2002 Nissan VQ35 and the 2003 Honda Accord 3.0L V6.
As for turbo I4s, the 1998 VW Passat 1.8 Turbo put out 150 hp; the Eclipse Turbos of the time were 2.0L with about 210 hp. IIRC turbo I4s of the time that made more were really sport models and weren't sold here (WRX, Evolution, etc).

[skylark68]

I wonder what Jim Wangers thinks about this? I probably know.

I wouldn't abandon GM for this although it definitely stinks big time.

I'm not a big Mopar fan, but Chrysler did a lot worse when they let their No. 1 volume brand die (Plymouth).

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by GM_Guy81

I wonder if GM has to continue to sell vibes because it has a contract with Toyota through the NUMMI plant to keep producing them through a particular time frame.

Jackpot. Not a contract, even, but a joint venture. NUMMI is co-owned by Toyota & GM.

I heard a rumor it was going to be used to teach GM how to build small cars....... Howzat workin for ya, GM ? [Looking at you G3]

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by imcgary

Yes they still sell the Matrix, although not in near the quantity as the Vibe.

My question is if they keep the Matrix how much more is it going to cost without the vibe to help offset the overhead cost?

The price of a Chevy or left over GEO badge.

[Orbit Orange]

Have any of you considered that if they did not kill Pontiac then the company as a whole would DIE?

Who says all of GM would have died if Pontiac had only 2 models (G8 and Solstice)? Why couldn't GM have said 1.) We will sell Pontiac to an American investor to raise money or 2.) We are going to temporarily mothball Pontiac and when we come back to profitability we will re-engage Pontiac with a limited niche market performance product. ?

Keeping Pontiac alive with 2 models wouldn't have killed GM. I've never even seen ANY statistics on how much money they claimed Pontiac was losing. All brands were losing money hence the bankruptcy. GM did wrong here and it will be shown in the long run as their market share shrinks. They have alienated the die-hard Pontiac enthusiast segment. It is going to come back and bite them in the ass and it will be because of their lack of foresight and arrogance.

[bnosyt]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

Who says all of GM would have died if Pontiac had only 2 models (G8 and Solstice)? Why couldn't GM have said 1.) We will sell Pontiac to an American investor to raise money or 2.) We are going to temporarily mothball Pontiac and when we come back to profitability we will re-engage Pontiac with a limited niche market performance product. ?

Keeping Pontiac alive with 2 models wouldn't have killed GM. I've never even seen ANY statistics on how much money they claimed Pontiac was losing. All brands were losing money hence the bankruptcy. GM did wrong here and it will be shown in the long run as their market share shrinks. They have alienated the die-hard Pontiac enthusiast segment. It is going to come back and bite them in the ass and it will be because of their lack of foresight and arrogance.

Well said.

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by imcgary

Yes they still sell the Matrix, although not in near the quantity as the Vibe.

Are you sure about that? Around here the "Corolla/Matrix" sales mix is at least 50/50 Matrix. I see a lot of Vibes too, but it helps that the plant is located here.

My question is if they keep the Matrix how much more is it going to cost without the vibe to help offset the overhead cost?

Keep in mind they don't build the Matrix at Nummi anyway.

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

Keeping Pontiac alive with 2 models wouldn't have killed GM. I've never even seen ANY statistics on how much money they claimed Pontiac was losing. All brands were losing money hence the bankruptcy. GM did wrong here and it will be shown in the long run as their market share shrinks. They have alienated the die-hard Pontiac enthusiast segment. It is going to come back and bite them in the ass and it will be because of their lack of foresight and arrogance.

Oh no. Building cars that lose money is exactly what killed GM.

Here's the problem with your proposal. Pontiac had a huge-footprint for high volume sales. They had something like 2500 dealerships. The whole point of cars like G8/Solstice was to bring in some "excitement" so they could move a large amount of G6s and Vibes. You eliminate all the volume Pontiac business (because GM can't afford R&D or advertising) and it's nothing but a runt who sells 50,000 money-losers per year, only about 2 sales per month per dealership. Lots of overhead for no results.

And then the ATF and the bankers really want to know why GM insists on losing money keeping the brand open when they have no future plans for it. "Its for the Pontiac enthusists!" they say. And then you look at that data and realize that neither the GTO or the G8 sold without incentives and there's probably more Studebaker enthusiasts than Pontiac enthusiasts.

Their marketshare has already shrunk. All those people who bought Grand Prix and Grand Ams abandoned GM 10 years ago.

[Orbit Orange]

and there's probably more Studebaker enthusiasts than Pontiac enthusiasts.

Put down the crackpipe. Drugs are bad.

[Triple-X08]

wow.

what a slap in the face. at least do something like they did with oldsmobile. make some special models available. special packages or something. throw V8's in everything, go nuts, do something, just dont make it be a toyota product as the final pontiac produced. WTF GM.

[ConcordeNick]

Originally Posted by DealerGuyAtl

The 2010 Pontiac Vibe has been out for several months now. Dealers can not order any new Pontiacs....period.

Is it possible to get some sort of confirmation of this from someone? Is there some way to get an email or letter to Mr. Henderson and ask him to do something for us loyalists?

Originally Posted by Jughead

This is an absolute disgrace. All those years of history and innovation to end with a re-badged Toyota. No effort at all to commemorate or celebrate the brand with a special edition vehicle. At least the last Olds got special badges...we get this POS.

I agree. I was expecting at least the same treatment that Olds got. If this is the best GM can do, I think I will be shopping at my Mazda dealer or perhaps even at my Hyundai dealer.

I went to my Chevrolet dealer today to have a look at the new Camaro because they ran an ad saying they had four of them. When I got there, they only had one as the other three had sold. They had a 69 in the showroom next to a stock/base 2010 V6 job with red paint and the black steel wheels. I'm sorry guys, but this thing is a joke. I couldn't find a comfortable seating position and the view out from over the dash and the sides is horrible! I snuck a quick seat in a sold orange SS. This one had the adjustable seat but when I adjusted the seat so that I could see out properly, my head was right up against the headliner. More fiddling. More adjusting. BLAH! I couldn't find a comfortable position even though I'm only 6' tall. The nose is much blunter than the photos suggest. UGLY. Way too high and there does not appear to be a hoodline. The hood is almost flat! WTF???

The ergonomics are questionable in many ways. I'll admit the SS was kind of butch and nasty but I found myself bored with it within seconds. A car's desirability should outlive say a loaf of bread at least. I know the chasis is fantastic. In many ways, it is similar to the G8. Why the hell couldn't we have gotten a modern coupe instead of this throwback? The nostalgia market and retro thing is going to die off.

So, Mr. Henderson and Co., what do you have to offer me? I don't see anything in a GM showroom other than a Corvette that does anything for me and I can't afford one. You killed off all the youthful and sporty offerings from Saturn and Pontiac. I don't know what to do. Do I spend one more dime on a GM and buy a G6 or G8 if I can find one with the options and colours I want, or do I give you the same treatment you gave me and head on over to my Mazda dealership or my Hyundai dealership?

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

It is because we are a passionate bunch about our once beloved brand and GM sold it's soul to the government and doesn't seem to care ONE OUNCE about us dedicated owners. Completely cruel, soulless and pathetic. They don't deserve our dedication anymore.

Or our money!



!!

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

Who says all of GM would have died if Pontiac had only 2 models (G8 and Solstice)? Why couldn't GM have said 1.) We will sell Pontiac to an American investor to raise money or 2.) We are going to temporarily mothball Pontiac and when we come back to profitability we will re-engage Pontiac with a limited niche market performance product. ?

Keeping Pontiac alive with 2 models wouldn't have killed GM. I've never even seen ANY statistics on how much money they claimed Pontiac was losing. All brands were losing money hence the bankruptcy. GM did wrong here and it will be shown in the long run as their market share shrinks. They have alienated the die-hard Pontiac enthusiast segment. It is going to come back and bite them in the ass and it will be because of their lack of foresight and arrogance.

I concur. Bravo!

!!