GM's Hummer brand under review for sale.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Please show proof of how a rod and a knob weigh less than a switch, wiring, a solenoid and an actuator for power locks? One has two parts, the other has about 5. 'Proven'? Not so much. Power windows and locks do not weigh less than their manual versions, no weigh....er, way.

Manual windows and locks are heavier when you have driver's seat control of all the other windows and doors. There are four handles and four knobs on the driver's door, and lots of plumbing to get to the other windows and door locks.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Not possible. An electric motor is going to weigh more than a hand crank. The track, guides and rollers are all the same so adding an electric motor, switches and wiring is definitely going to weigh more than 2 or 4 window crank handles.

Maybe your right, I make errors and maybe I misunderstood what I read. This was awhile ago. If you look back on my last post on the previous page I did provide proof where a power window was lighter than a hand crank.

[windvale]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Maybe your right, I make errors and maybe I misunderstood what I read. This was awhile ago. If you look back on my last post on the previous page I did provide proof where a power window was lighter than a hand crank.

Question - would a hand crank window weigh more than an African swallow carrying a coconut ?

[NfamousZ24]

So when is Micheal Moore comming to Dayton to film "Rick and Me"?

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by t-rex

Au contraire, mon frere...

You've erroneously broken society down into two oversimplified segments: tree huggers, and the absurdly wasteful. There's a huge gray area in between, a large segment of the ordinary public that viewed Hummers and Suburbans and such to be absolute excess. It's not just the radicals who weren't wild about Hummer and its ilk...

Cut yer hair you hippie!

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by windvale

Question - would a hand crank window weigh more than an African swallow carrying a coconut ?

LOL, I am not sure.

[Uzzy]

The turdball quoted in the Canadian article as saying: "The "shocking" closure announcement is "nothing short of betrayal - it's absolutely disgusting," said Chris Buckley, president of the CAW local at the Oshawa plant, who also attacked the "cowardly" way GM made the announcement in Oshawa, refusing to allow union officials to address the workforce." Is the very same CAW President of Local 222 Chris Buckly that was quoted as saying "GM is the enemy brothers and sisters" less than a year ago when he and King Buzz were coming through Windsor. I guess GM didn't like that.

[SUPERBADD75]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Not possible. An electric motor is going to weigh more than a hand crank. The track, guides and rollers are all the same so adding an electric motor, switches and wiring is definitely going to weigh more than 2 or 4 window crank handles.

from my experience, the hand crank windows are actually a much larger and heavier mechanism than the simple cables and pulleys that operate a power window. now maybe the newest cars are different, and i admit that i haven't looked at a manual window mechanism since my 2000 model Ranger, but it's plausible that power window lifts are lighter, even with the motor.

[RSW]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

The turdball quoted in the Canadian article as saying: "The "shocking" closure announcement is "nothing short of betrayal - it's absolutely disgusting," said Chris Buckley, president of the CAW local at the Oshawa plant, who also attacked the "cowardly" way GM made the announcement in Oshawa, refusing to allow union officials to address the workforce." Is the very same CAW President of Local 222 Chris Buckly that was quoted as saying "GM is the enemy brothers and sisters" less than a year ago when he and King Buzz were coming through Windsor. I guess GM didn't like that.

He said that? Incredible.

[crooner214]

Originally Posted by Geotpf

That's dumb too, assuming it's the same size and also sold at Chevy dealers.

What I took from the Automotive News article was that they would sell both for about a year or so, sort of like Chevy did a few years back with the Malibu Classic. The only question I have is: does this mean that the replacement will be more expensive? If not, the current Cobalt might be GM's next fleet queen.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

I think they ought to give this treatment to all their vehicles, not just their small cars. I've been saying for a while now that they ought to have two engine programs for every vehicle so that the driver can switch between them with the push of a button or switch - similar to the tow mode of the trucks/SUVs, but an economy button. Have the vehicle default to economy mode to meet CAFE and get great fuel economy, but give the user the ability to switch over to "normal" mode when they need to carry a load (or several passengers), need to pass somebody on the highway, or want to burn some rubber in their sports car. Every vehicle could benefit from some version of this idea.

I've often wondered if they could do that with small turbocharged engines that have a switch to bypass the turbocharger.

If you have a weekend muscle car, you probably drive it hard often. But most people that have day-driver vehicles with tons of power very rarely tap into that power. But having the extra power when you want it is handy and fun. So build the engine of your family sedan to be, say, a 1.8 liter naturally aspirated 130 horsepower setup 99% of the time and a gas guzzling 280 horsepower high boost turbo the other 1%.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by SUPERBADD75

from my experience, the hand crank windows are actually a much larger and heavier mechanism than the simple cables and pulleys that operate a power window. now maybe the newest cars are different, and i admit that i haven't looked at a manual window mechanism since my 2000 model Ranger, but it's plausible that power window lifts are lighter, even with the motor.

The older, scissor-type window lifts weigh less than a power window setup. Cable/tape driven ones are the same except for the addition of the motor, switches and wiring. It's probably like around 5-10lbs difference between a manual and power window equipped car, but when you're going for maximum fuel economy, weight is weight is weight and any power accessory is going to add weight and effect fuel economy.

[Clownzilla]

Originally Posted by NfamousZ24

Ok then I go back to why not close Shreveport? Why not build the Colorado/Caynon/TB/Envoy on the same platform (Smaller say 330 size again) Dumb it down, Go back to making Trucks Trucks and SUV's SUV's. Offer Manuals and whatnot again. Then make a few higher packages. Why not offer more engine choices from the 2.4 Ecotec, 2.0 Turbo, 3.6, 5.3, Dieseal. Where is the Dual Mode Hybrid where is the E-85?

Oh Well I guess the UAW will just get more $$$$ in their VEBA when Moraine Assembly gets closed down.

Why Shreveport and not Moraine? GM has reasons to do the things they way they are done. They just don't throw darts at a board and call it closed. Also, more money in the VEBA would be fine because they won't have to worry about that after the VEBA is fully funded. My question is how the UAW-CAW can afford all these benefits for their "brothers and sisters" after GM shuts more factories down. GM will only fund to a certain point and that will be it. After that is gone, how is the UAW-CAW going to keep it funded without any of their workers employed?

[mbukukanyau]

Killing hummer would be a mistake. What is the difference between a H3 and a stripdown G Waggen

GM needs to think outside the box. Make Hummers Smaller, and load them with efficient powertrains and lots of electronics and technology, also, Bring back the H1, give it Diesel only, Kill the H2 and lift the price of H3 to over $50.00 with content to justify pricing.
Go for a global sales and Branding

[2648562]

I know Wagoner is wrong about most of what he says, but he doesn't shoot his mouth off the way Lutz does. If Wagoner is mentioning selling Hummer off PUBLICLY (however casually) GM is going to sell them off. Selling GM off piece by piece seems to be his talent.