GM's Hummer brand under review for sale.

[NfamousZ24]

Originally Posted by Clownzilla

It doesn't matter how productive that factory is, they still are structured to make gas guzzling trucks. When all the numbers were crunched I am sure that factory was considered a money toilet. GM can't keep these types of operations running..........they are not a charity organization. On another point, it's good that you and your wife planned ahead with more training and education. That is what more factory workers in the United States need to do.......but don't.

Ok then I go back to why not close Shreveport? Why not build the Colorado/Caynon/TB/Envoy on the same platform (Smaller say 330 size again) Dumb it down, Go back to making Trucks Trucks and SUV's SUV's. Offer Manuals and whatnot again. Then make a few higher packages. Why not offer more engine choices from the 2.4 Ecotec, 2.0 Turbo, 3.6, 5.3, Dieseal. Where is the Dual Mode Hybrid where is the E-85?

Oh Well I guess the UAW will just get more $$$$ in their VEBA when Moraine Assembly gets closed down.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

What ever happened to trucks being utilitarian? When did they become more luxurious than a mid-90's Mercedes? And why? I know the reasons why, just being rhetorical.

Why do all trucks have to be utilitarian? Here's my solution, offer a utilitarian trim and a luxury trim. Everyone gets what they want then. I think they do this already. I have no need for a truck, but if I needed a truck I would be turned off by a truck like the one you used to own.

[benroethig]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

I bet all the Hummer dealerships with the brand new Hummer buildings are going to be pissed hearing this. I personally wouldn't kill Hummer just yet. I'd get rid of the H2, improve fuel economy of the H3 to best-in-class range, and add the H4 with great mileage to compete against the Wrangler.

I would, along with Buick, Saturn, GMC, and Pontiac if they're not going all RWD. They would save a bunch of money by not having to make six different versions of the same car and truck. Build a new Blazer along the lines of the wrangler to replace the H3/4. The H3 has a lot of added stuff for extreme off-roading that add weight.

[throwback]

I think selling Hummer is the most cost effective approach. Trying to make Hummers more fuel efficient is a long tough road. Closing Hummer is costly but, at the end of the day Hummer has to go. GM makes too many trucks. I agree with Henderson when he says GM needs to make money selling cars. Higher CAFE standards are coming, gas is not going to get cheap enough that people will buy a truck when a car will suffice. Finally some signs of life at the old GM monolith.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Why do all trucks have to be utilitarian? Here's my solution, offer a utilitarian trim and a luxury trim. Everyone gets what they want then. I think they do this already. I have no need for a truck, but if I needed a truck I would be turned off by a truck like the one you used to own.

Exactly! That was sort of the idea behind the GMC Denali lineup, but the problem is that basic trucks are already pretty darn fancy these days, so Denali (or other uplevel) versions are dripping with goodies. They need to shift back a notch, so that basic trucks and SUVs are simple and more affordable, and 'luxury' versions exist for those that still have the funds for them.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Exactly! That was sort of the idea behind the GMC Denali lineup, but the problem is that basic trucks are already pretty darn fancy these days, so Denali (or other uplevel) versions are dripping with goodies. They need to shift back a notch, so that basic trucks and SUVs are simple and more affordable, and 'luxury' versions exist for those that still have the funds for them.

A basic truck now is: AM/FM radio single disk CD player, Power Windows and Locks, Air Conditioning, and a durable but not fancy interior. It has been proven power windows/locks (Which people labeled as fancy) weight less than their Stone Age manual counter parts. I am all for smaller, more fuel efficient engines in such a vehicle. It doesn't need to beat a Corvette, and if that’s what you want upgrade. If you need a basic/cheap truck buy a Ford Ranger or Canyon, just drop in a fuel frugal engine.

[drew770]

If there is a major need for some super off-road vehicle then let Chevy have it. Badge it a Chevy Hummer and call it a day.
You don't need a whole standalone brand just for Jeep. Chrysler is struggling with Jeep but Jeep has weathered alot worst like the 70s gas crisis and folks trust them as a brand.

[GMC-70]

Originally Posted by skylark68

Here in the Houston market at least, Chevrolet runs a commercial calling out the fuel savings of the Silverado versus the Tundra.

Funny that you bring this up. An old friend of mine just traded in his 1 year old Tundra for a new Chevy Avalanche. His reasoning was that the Tundra averaged 10mpg--I responded by asking ...well thats when your pulling a trailer right?--he wasn't amused.

Anyway, he traded it in last week for a flex-fuel Avalanche with the cyl deactivation feature. I don't know what he is getting but I think he is hoping for around 15mpg.

So it looks like the Tundra may be in for some tuff times once the word gets out that there are truly Toyota gas hogs out there.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

A basic truck now is: AM/FM radio single disk CD player, Power Windows and Locks, Air Conditioning, and a durable but not fancy interior. It has been proven power windows/locks (Which people labeled as fancy) weigh less than their Stone Age manual counter parts. I am all for smaller, more fuel efficient engines in such a vehicle. It doesn't need to beat a Corvette, and if that’s what you want upgrade. If you need a basic/cheap truck buy a Ford Ranger or Canyon, just drop in a fuel frugal engine.

Please show proof of how a rod and a knob weigh less than a switch, wiring, a solenoid and an actuator for power locks? One has two parts, the other has about 5. 'Proven'? Not so much. Power windows and locks do not weigh less than their manual versions, no weigh....er, way.

[windvale]

Just a question...how is it that the new compact car to be built at Lordstown will be ready for next year ? It seems like this car has come out of nowhere, and will be ready in almost no time. It's not like we've seen spy photo's of this baby - or have we ?

Does anybody know ? Are they greenlighting this car through the develoment process the way they did the GMT-900's two years ago ?

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Why do all trucks have to be utilitarian? Here's my solution, offer a utilitarian trim and a luxury trim. Everyone gets what they want then. I think they do this already. I have no need for a truck, but if I needed a truck I would be turned off by a truck like the one you used to own.

I didn't say they had to be, just asking why aren't they? Turned off, then don't buy it. I am not talking about manufacturers changing trucks from 'trucks' to luxury vehicles, but asking why the buying public changed their perception of trucks/SUV's from 'the repair man's car of choice' to a fashion statement and/or sign of having 'made it'.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Please show proof of how a rod and a knob weigh less than a switch, wiring, a solenoid and an actuator for power locks? One has two parts, the other has about 5. 'Proven'? Not so much. Power windows and locks do not weigh less than their manual versions, no weigh....er, way.

I will have to look that up; I heard that the power windows do weigh less a few times on this site.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Voila! Great example! Now GM has to give the XFE treatment to all of their small cars!

I think they ought to give this treatment to all their vehicles, not just their small cars. I've been saying for a while now that they ought to have two engine programs for every vehicle so that the driver can switch between them with the push of a button or switch - similar to the tow mode of the trucks/SUVs, but an economy button. Have the vehicle default to economy mode to meet CAFE and get great fuel economy, but give the user the ability to switch over to "normal" mode when they need to carry a load (or several passengers), need to pass somebody on the highway, or want to burn some rubber in their sports car. Every vehicle could benefit from some version of this idea.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

I didn't say they had to be, just asking why aren't they? Turned off, then don't buy it. I am not talking about manufacturers changing trucks from 'trucks' to luxury vehicles, but asking why the buying public changed their perception of trucks/SUV's from 'the repair man's car of choice' to a fashion statement and/or sign of having 'made it'.

I don't really know about that, the Ranger and Canyon are fairly basic.

Edit: Couldn't really find any decent information that backed up my argument, but here is one car where the designer said that their was a weight difference: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....2&print_page=y

"Our Exige was fitted with the optional Touring Pack (with leather seats and door panels, additional sound deadening and carpeting, power windows; $1350 and 15 lb. well spent), and it's interesting to note that the standard hand-crank windows weigh roughly 7 oz. more than the power units, according to obviously weight-obsessed Nick Adams, the Exige Vehicle Development Manager."

It's been said before I guarantee you buy if my proof isn't good enough for you disregard what I said. Not a big difference but still a difference.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

I will have to look that up; I heard that the power windows do weigh less a few times on this site.

Not possible. An electric motor is going to weigh more than a hand crank. The track, guides and rollers are all the same so adding an electric motor, switches and wiring is definitely going to weigh more than 2 or 4 window crank handles.