GM's Hummer brand under review for sale.

[member12]

Originally Posted by ptmeyer84

I think Hummer should stay, but be scaled down and refocused. Either axe the H2 or greatly limit the production, Redesign the H3 and bring in the H4 along the lines of the HX concept. If Jeep can survive, so can Hummer.

Hummer should have minimum impact on CAFE because it is a niche seller.

Hummer should be to Cadillac what Scion is to Toyota....A few trucks on the side to sell to those few hard core off roaders.

GM can make it work.

[autofan]

If Hummer/GM had balanced their fuel thirsty models (H2) with more fuel efficient and smaller models (not just H3 but H4, etc.), they would not have the poor image they have. I don't think Hummer necessarily has to be big, brawny off-road tanks. It could also be smaller off-road capable fun runabouts like the HX concept or a smaller SUV along the lines of the Jeep Patriot. The question now will be if the image of the brand is too far gone for such models to be a success.

[paul38469]

Originally Posted by tripowergto

Didn't the recent CAW agreement with GM guarantee the Oshawa truck plant would keep running? OUCH!

They just seem to be toying with the people at Oshawa. First they announced the elimination of the second shift. Then, they gave a stay of execution in the new CAW agreement and said that it could be the lead plant for the new generation of trucks, only to announce that they will close the whole thing. All of this has occurred within the last, say, 3-4 weeks. You can't tell me that they didn't know that there was a good chance they'd close that plant when they negotiated the new agreement. It is too bad they are going to get rid of their best truck plant. I feel bad for the people of Oshawa. There as been so much bad news there lately, and they only have 2 products confirmed for the car plant, the Camero and one other. They are going from a truck plant on 3 shifts and 2 car plants, one with 2 shifts and one with 3, down to 1 plant with a low volume product and another product of unknown volume. Not good at all.

[gardnet1]

Saab got a free pass today. I'm surprised. As for Hummer, let's see what is out there. Maybe tater has another $5 billion burning a hole in their pocket. If serious cash isn't available for GM, then I would make Hummer a sub-brand of GMC and just phase out the dealerships. I wouldn't merge them into the Caddilac sales channel as I don't want that distraction for Caddy. GMC would be a nice fit.

The plant closings are in line with what I expected. I know several GMI members work at Moraine, and it is sad, painful and absolutely necessary. Maybe this plant would be a good candidate for new car models down the road, as would Oshawa. Janesville is among the oldest and furthest separated from suppliers. Arlington is GM's answer to toyoduh in San Antonio, so that couldn't close.

Well targeted buyouts are on the way as GM can dump another 10,000 blue collar jobs.

Many of these cuts, such as Janesville should have happened a few years back but GM was still in denial.

Across the street at Ford, most people didn't notice that they got rid of another F-Series plant when the one in Mexico converts to the Fiesta. This will require all Mexican F-Series production to move to the US. In NA, Ford will have Dearborn & K.C. for F-100, F-150 and Louisville for all Super-Duties. Norfolk, Mexico and Ontario have all bowed out of F-series production since 2000. Ranger production in Twin Cities won't last too much longer either.

On the Ironic side, a few years ago, Oshawa plants 1, 2 & 3 were the most efficient in North America. Now they are down to what Camaro and maybe some future models?

[PontiacBixler]

My thoughts as how to go about some changes after reading everything so far:
Chevy: Cobalt, Malibu, Impala, Volt, Camaro, Corvette, Silverado. No SUVs or CUVs.

GMC: Sierra, Acadia, Envoy (based off of Vue body though).

Pontiac: Solstice, G5 (with real styling differences from the Cobalt), G6, G8, Firebird/GTO.

Buick: Century, Park Avenue, Enclave

Caddy: CTS Coupe, CTS Sedan, STS, Evoque/SRX/BRX whatever they are calling it know a days.

Saturn: Astra, Aura, Vue.

Hummer: H3, H4. No Pickup variations of either and both feature V6s only. No Alphas allowed.

Saab: Gone.

GEO: Aveo, Metro (Cobalt/G5 4 door body), Tracker (2/4dr 4x4/AWD).

Oh yeah baby! Dust off the GEO name plate again and let that brand feature the most cost effective fuel rates for all of GM's vehicles.

Why shoehorn higher MPG vehicles into car brands that don't fit the mold, like putting a G3 in Pontiac??? That makes no sense. Which is why I took the Aveo away from Chevy and placed it in the GEO brand in my happy little world. While we're at it, why not try to make all GEO models Hybrids and Electrical??? A small 2 Door and 4 Door Tracker would be a "welcomed home long lost brother" in the world of utility.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by windvale

I know this is hearesy around here, but when I think of how the leadership of Toyota and Honda have positioned their company to succeed in the current environment and the future with cars like the Fit, Civic, Yaris, Prius, etc., - and then I think about how GM's leadership has wasted time/resources/money repositioning deck chairs on the Titanic (i.e. the G8, Outlook, Lucerne, H2, etc.) I'm totally disgusted.

I agree with your comparison of the imports versus GM, but don't see why you say it's heresey. Not many people, even on GMi, agree that GM has been doing things right over the past few years.

I think the most telling is the fact that Ford and Chrysler don't even have a small car in their lineup. GM was actually ahead of the surge, for the most part, with the Aveo in 2004. Problem is it was half baked, and can't compete as well as it needs to with the conmpetition.

Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, and Kia have all managed to get their small cars onto the US market over the past few years. The Aveo isn't horrible, but it is near the bottom of the pack. Ford has a perfectly good Fiesta that could have been introduced to NA, but nope, they didn't do it. Chrysler doesn't even have a small car in its global lineup, which shows an incredible lack of foresight. Yes, of course, we all know that next year or the year after Ford will have a US Fiesta and Chrysler will have something from Nissan or China, and GM MIGHT have the Beat... but the competition was smart enough to have their dinky cars out today. The domestics are suffering and rightfully so.

[tripowergto]

Originally Posted by paul38469

They just seem to be toying with the people at Oshawa. First they announced the elimination of the second shift. Then, they gave a stay of execution in the new CAW agreement and said that it could be the lead plant for the new generation of trucks, only to announce that they will close the whole thing. All of this has occurred within the last, say, 3-4 weeks. You can't tell me that they didn't know that there was a good chance they'd close that plant when they negotiated the new agreement. It is too bad they are going to get rid of their best truck plant. I feel bad for the people of Oshawa. There as been so much bad news there lately, and they only have 2 products confirmed for the car plant, the Camero and one other. They are going from a truck plant on 3 shifts and 2 car plants, one with 2 shifts and one with 3, down to 1 plant with a low volume product and another product of unknown volume. Not good at all.

Thanks, paul38469. They do also still have the Impala and Lacrosse models slated til 2012. I believe the ultimate decision was also made based upon the strong Canadian currency rate vs US dollars.

[Clownzilla]

Well, this is a positive step for GM and their road back to profitability. These plants NEEDED to be closed and they were. No BS truck building jobs for the UAW-CAW anymore.

[bleuler]

What do you mean Saab got a free pass - or should be axed?

Who do you think engineered the 1.4L DI turbo? GM NA? No. They also helped to engineer the plugin capability for the Volt.

Plus, they get some of the best MPG in their class.

I seriously don't understand the talk for them to go, since Gm europe is making money.

[ARCANGEL]

GEO would be a smart subbrand ala Scion but with ultra fuel efficents, GEO BEAT, GEO TRAXX, GEO GROOVE all of these triplets could work!!!! Cut pontaic to 3 vehicles, SAAB to 3 vehicles, Buick to 3 and GMC to 3 it will cut cost!!

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Perian

To further strengthen GM's lineup of fuel-efficient cars, the GM board has approved a next-generation compact Chevy for the U.S. and global markets, a next generation of the popular Chevy Aveo, and a U.S. production module of GM's 1.4-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine.

The next-generation compact will be pure Chevrolet in design, and will feature the 1.4-liter turbocharged version of GM's global four-cylinder engine. With this engine and a manual transmission, the new Chevy is expected to achieve a 9 mpg improvement over Chevy's current entry in this segment. The engine will be produced in Flint, Michigan, again subject to final negotiations with state and local authorities.

Wow thats awesome, wonder what kind of fuel economy improvement it will get with the automatic? Which vehicle is it going into? The Cobalt, Aveo, both?

[ARCANGEL]

this ^^^^ is talking about the new car!!!

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by jameskz28

NOOO!

This is GM's problem- they have no clue how to seperate the identities of thier brands. They are too busy trying to make every brand appeal to every customer. Maybe they need to spin off a couple badges. Stop trying to rebadge everything and give your brands some individuality.

Does anyone see Ferarri or Porsche or Lamborghini closing plants? No, and why? Because they know they have a niche vehicle and treat it as such. Make something that your target audience wants to buy and it doesn't matter what kind of gas mileage it gets OR how much it costs.

You can't compare Ferrari or Porsche or Lamborghini to Hummer. They are niche companies, the Hummer is a niche brand. Hummer sells more than Ferarri makes. Maybe they need to spin off a couple badges...yep, Hummer. Brand identity or a lack thereof isn't the problem with Hummer, it's the rising cost of fuel and the dwindling sales of a boutique SUV. How many Hummer's do you own? If you aren't an owner, why do you care if they pull the plug on what is essentially a dead brand? The times are changing and GM is (finally) changing with them, yeah it's going to cause some bumps and bruises along the way but if it keeps GM alive then so be it.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by Perian

Also recently approved was a next generation of the popular Chevy Aveo. Based on a global architecture, the Aveo is also expected to have segment-leading fuel economy when it goes on sale in the U.S. market in the second half of 2010.

Segment-leading fuel economy in two years is great and all, but about about today, and for the next two years? There's really no way to get a better engine in this thing before then?

[ARCANGEL]

Totally Agree Saturn69