GMI Exclusive: Saturn May Go To BPG, Why Aura ≠ Insignia

[saturnplace]

I have been with Saturn at the retail level for almost 16 years and I can tell you the warm and fuzzy is gone. We are nothing more than another GM nameplate. I can tell you it's hard for those us who trained and lived the "Saturn Values" everyday when we showed up to work. Those of us, out of loyalty, who have stuck it out are becoming more discouraged as the days go on. I think the real danger for Saturn is when the core employees from the original Saturn network are gone. What are you left with then? Nothing more than steel and plastic. Guess what, there are a lot of companies that do steel and plastic better than GM.....

I hope this post doesn't sound like I am bitter. I am not. I will be fine no matter what happens to Saturn or GM. It's just tough to see the dream die.

The dealer group I work for recently sold the market area to another dealer group. Take it for what it's worth-

Take note of the header.

http://www.carlblackroswell.com/

http://www.carlblackroswell.com/news-events/

[GM-Joe]

My guess is Saturn stays solo, except for rural and small areas, where being with BPG would be good and give the consumer more of a choice.

As for the next Aura, I figured Buick will get the Insignia clone and that leaves Saturn to get something more on the lines of a watered down version; something a sheep would enjoy. Since Opel is moving up market, a bit, Saturn may need to be watered down or cheapened up to hit the right demographic.

Lastly, first drive, Insignia: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ons_specs.html

[ronald mcretard]

Originally Posted by Murrow

In Miami, there's already a B-P-S-G dealership. Vera B-P-G/Saturn of South Miami-Dade. All brands share the same showroom.

So how does no-haggle work there? Is there a no-haggle policy on the Saturns but not on the rest?

[Motownr]

It's sad to see GM crippled by the combination of state franchise laws and a surplus of overlapping brands. Not to mention decades of simply horrible brand mismanagement.

BPGS? I can't imagine that a GM could afford the costs outside of chapter. Saturn dealers have a unique franchise agreement, and altering the terms of this contract would be costly...at a time when the parent is hemorrhaging cash.

How do they envision reconciling the fact that in most markets, there is one Saturn point and numerous BPG dealers? Do you let the Saturn point go to a single dealer...or add points to make sure that every BPG dealer has Saturn? How much would THAT cost?

The Cerberus gang has it easy compared to this mess.

[jbartley]

Originally Posted by Hitman1970

Outlook dead.
Vue is solid, but how different from Terrain?

size for one, the Terrain will be bigger, and MUCH more masculine. they can survive on the same lot the way the enclave and acadia can.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by BerettaZ

So, if Saturn loses its no haggle, customer service as a priority philosophy, and sell them along side Buicks, GMCs, and Pontiacs, wouldn't this officially make Saturn the Oldsmobile replacement

Hopefully, the B-P-G dealerships gain the excellent customer service, a la Saturn, and adopt the no haggle process as well. From what I hear, Pontiac dealers could stand to learn a lot with customer service. And if this is true, Pontiac is the end of Redline for Saturn, and Super for Buick. Doesn't this defeat the point of a "niche" dealership for GM? If they are transferring Saturn to "move the metal" then its all about volume. Furthermore, I don't know how they could market such similar brands in a different fashion, they already have a hard enough time with the dealership as is, but then throw Saturn into the mix, and its just plain chaos. I'm suggesting a plan, whether it works, is ultimately up to GM and the consumer, but I'm throwing my best idea out there anyways.

Saturn:
Astra - 1.4 Turbo, 1.8 Ecotec Turbo (Gamma II?)
Aura - 1.8 Ecotec Turbo, 2.0 Ecotec (235hp) (Epsilon II)
Zafira - 1.4 Turbo, 2.0 Ecotec (Delta II)

Saturn is touted as the Green machine or something dorky like that, it eliminates the need for a small Pontiac or Buick, and allows both brands to explore more "niche-like" products. Saturn is also the brand which offers a diesel engine in each of its cars, a 1.9 Turbo producing around 155 hp, and lots of torque.

Pontiac:
Solstice - 1.8 Ecotec Turbo, 2.0 Ecotec (Kappa II)
Grand Prix/Firebird - 2.0 Ecotec, 3.6 DI V6 (Alpha)
Bonneville/GTO - 3.6 DI V6, 6.0 (L76) V8 (Zeta)

Pontiac is the next step up, featuring performance out of its entirely RWD product line. Its basically everything Pontiac should be, but isn't currently.

Buick:
Invicta - 1.4 Ecotec Turbo, 1.8 Ecotec Turbo (On Delta II)
LeSabre - 2.0 Ecotec Turbo, 3.0 DI V6, 3.6 DI V6
Riviera - 2.0 Ecotec Turbo, 3.6 DI V6 *coupe or hardtop 'vert (Epsilon II)
Enclave - 3.0 DI V6, 3.6 DI V6 (Lambda)

Buick is really going all out, its luxury for the everyday man, woman and child. They aren't Cadillacs and don't pretend to be either, its just American luxury that draws on traditional cues, yet is very modern as far as engines, transmissions, creature comforts.

*Note that all three brands stated use either Ecotec or High Feature V6 variants, this helps to eliminate the High Value family (not that there's anything wrong with it, but its cost effective to eliminate it)

GMC:
Canyon/Terrain - 3.0 DI V6, 3.6 DI V6, based on Theta II
Sierra/Yukon - 4.2 Inline-Six (Atlas), 5.3 V8, 6.2 V8, 4.0 Diesel
Hybrid and Denali trim levels take up the rest of GMC.

And another thought, where does this leave Hummer and Saab? If they are sold off, GM is left with a Chevy dealer, a B-P-S-G dealer, and a Cadillac dealer. I say that Saab should get partnered with Chevy, and sell its European roots out.

[Flyingbunnys]

If Saturn does this then it losses its already weak and fragile identity. The only way I see that this might would is if

GMC = Classy Chevy Trucks/SUVs
Pontiac = Sporty Cars
Saturn = Efficient Cars
Buick = Entry Luxury

Each with only 3 or so models in their line up.
That is the only way I can see this working

This is what I have suggested from the beginning and it is a change for them to reduces overlap, because now you can't have the Aura and G6 on the same dealership now can you, unless you gave one a sporty engine and the other an efficient engine, but you wouldn't have both with the same engine thusly no overlap.

CadiEldo kinda beat me too this, but I like his ideas except Saab with Chevy. Personally I don't think that there is room for Saab in the United States. Hummer was a bad idea altogether and now just needs to go away.

[The Law]

I like idea of SPG and CBS.
That way you have Euro,Asian and niche at each level.The branding wouldn't be much different from today right a bit more refined to the plans-markets of those brands.I'm really not sure why Gm didn't map this out before the re-do of Saturn b/c Saturn could have been the Asian branding but i guess with China being there number one market....
Of course with any move that Gm makes now will have to cut at least one model from a brand.If Saturn goes to BPG than Aura,outlook and sky,If Buick goes to Caddy-Saab than 9-3 & 9-5 sedans which need to be renewed/replaced with AWD hatches anyway.Buick could be near Lux FWD sedans-Cuv's,Saab Modern sporty AWD, Caddy RWD-SUV.Pontiac need to be low-mid (Scion-Mazda) Asian fighter at any cost anyway.Buick could fill in the missing Asian link (infinite/lexus) for the higher brands.

[PocoToro]

Originally Posted by BerettaZ

So, if Saturn loses its no haggle, customer service as a priority philosophy, and sell them along side Buicks, GMCs, and Pontiacs, wouldn't this officially make Saturn the Oldsmobile replacement

I've said form day one of Saturn and the death of Olds. "Saturn is the new Oldsmobile"

Originally Posted by gmlifer

This might work if they have the right products for each brand and eliminate any overlaps
Buick=Luxury
Pontiac=RWD Performance
Saturn=Small fuel effecient cars but more upscale and more european than Chevy
Gmc=Upscale trucks

This is the lineup I'd be working up to. Basically upscale of Chevy and down from Caddy with each "brand" having a distinct flavor

Originally Posted by eaton53

If they must do this (I'd just cut Saturn myself) then Saturn should go back to its roots selling small FWD cars only.... forget this moving upscale crap.

This relieves Pontiac from the burden of selling them and allows it to concentrate on RWD performance, including the modern day 2002 that BMW seems incapable of building and the Torana along with the G8 and Solstice.

And this is what could make it all work out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[The Law]

Saturn:
Astra - 1.4 Turbo, 1.8 Ecotec Turbo (Gamma II?)
Aura - 1.8 Ecotec Turbo, 2.0 Ecotec (235hp) (Epsilon II)
Zafira - 1.4 Turbo, 2.0 Ecotec (Delta II)


I believe Saturn Corsa is Gamma 2, Astra being Delta 2.

by the by, if Gm gets a wild hair across their ase and sells Saab than it should be Caddy-Saturn with Saturn just taken Saab's spot, or keeping all brands,SPG and CBS.This would leave Gm in better standing with the products that are on their way out or brands never received,Saab should have AWD Hatches,Buick should be near Lux,Pontiac should and could have Sporty Asian styling: Pontiac doesn't need to be another Chevy with a fake Firdbird/Cammo or G5/6.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by Flyingbunnys

because now you can't have the Aura and G6 on the same dealership now can you,

And for this reason, Alpha is essential to Pontiac. This entire scheme they are cooking up will flop like nobody's business if there is an Aura, G6 and LaCrosse. Which by the way, the only way I could seperate the Aura and lacrosse was by giving the Aura a 4-banger only, and giving the lacrosse a nice v6, putting them in different categories.

And about the Saab thing, I was just throwing it out there, I figure that if GM isn't going to sell it for some reason, it may as well go to a volume leader and get a real chance.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by The Law

Saturn:
Astra - 1.4 Turbo, 1.8 Ecotec Turbo (Gamma II?)
Aura - 1.8 Ecotec Turbo, 2.0 Ecotec (235hp) (Epsilon II)
Zafira - 1.4 Turbo, 2.0 Ecotec (Delta II)


I believe Saturn Corsa is Gamma 2, Astra being Delta 2.

You may be right, i really don't know about the Astra that well. In fact, I'd like to include the Corsa in my lineup, I think that its just what the B-P-S-G dealerships are missing. Thanks for the reminder.

[The Law]

Originally Posted by Flyingbunnys

GMC = Classy Chevy Trucks/SUVs
Pontiac = Sporty Cars
Saturn = Efficient Cars
Buick = Entry Luxury


This is what I have suggested from the beginning and it is a change for them to reduces overlap, because now you can't have the Aura and G6 on the same dealership now can you, unless you gave one a sporty engine and the other an efficient engine, but you wouldn't have both with the same engine thusly no overlap.
.

1. All gm's cars need 2 need efficient to compete.
2.Aura & G6 could survive together with different tech, comfort and styling.
3.Three brands are 1 too many:would involve cutting a lot of models with little in return.
4.Agreed, Pontiac needs sporty but not Chevy remakes; Asian styled sporty.
5.There's no reason why Pontiac can't have something similar too Scion Tc,Mazda 3 & 6.maybe even Asian style Firebird cut Solice.

[igotzzoom]

Why is it that GM teases us with all these tasty treats overseas and then backpedals and say it's going to give us an out-dated, watered-down model for the U.S. market? The Insignia looks like a phenomenal car. It looks like a $50,000 luxury sedan! I guess I'll never understand GM management's logic.

[LeSabre]

Saturn w/PBG is GM management still working w/its lack of common sense.
Saturn w/PBG would cause more problems than it is worth creating.
GM should just build more(but no more than they need to reach financial brand goals) Saturn stores & place them in strategic areas of any given city/cities.