GMI Exclusive: 2010 Saturn Aura on "Hold"

[xyagentguy]

I saw a few people mention Monday. Is that when more news will be forthcoming?

I'm not convinced that Saturn is getting the axe by any means. I realize that Pontiac and GMC may both out-sell Saturn by a large margin year-to-year, but I also believe that a huge bulk of Saturn buyers may abandon GM if they axe Saturn meanwhile a large bulk of Pontiac or GMC buyers may simply feel okay with switching to Chevy or another GM brand.

Saturn buyers are unique, no doubt about it. I have three people in just my immediate life that would never buy an American car if their life depended on it EXCEPT Saturn (which, btw, all three own both a Saturn and a second car that is foreign)...

I dunno..

[nsap]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

GMC's product "disadvantage" is a temporary one at best if you look at the truck market and what it will be in the future – not much different than the last 50 years.

The full size truck market in the U.S. is driven mainly by the construction/farm/housing/ranch/service market and the future truck market will rebound along with the construction/farm/housing/ranch/service market with 80% of full size trucks being used in one of three ways:

The construction/farm/housing/ranch/service market (including government and private business use)
Weekend recreational use (towing/hauling)
Occasional utility vehicle (runs to nursery/home improvement)

Trucks used in the construction/farm/housing/ranch/service market will be used often and replaced on a regular basis (unless the housing market implodes).

Trucks used for Recreational or Utility uses will be driven more on a temporary (2nd car) basis and not build up many miles and be purchased by individuals with higher discretionary income (BPG buyers).

The remaining 20% will be used for a variety of uses and will be used at near normal mileage rates.

Now GMC sells about 450,000 units at say an average $28K with a $7K profit per unit resulting in $12,600,000,000 in annual revenue generating $3,150,000,000 in profits and if GMC is cut all of this will be lost from either the 40 – 60 % of GMC buyers going to Toyota, Dodge or Ford and the Buick/Pontiac owners who will do likewise, not to mention to buyers GM will never see because many of them will think GM is shutting down since they think GMC stands for General Motors Corporation (I know it does not so save the posts).

Cut GMC you cut GM – No GMC = No GM

If you are convinced cutting GMC is a good idea, go to every BPG dealer combination that maybe in your area and ask the owner “If they would like to see GMC dropped”. Let me know what they say.

BPG dealers will continue to sell a lot of GMC trucks and SUV’s to it’s customers because they are older and have more discretionary income and in many cases will be selling personal use cars/SUV’s to the contractors, farmers, ranchers and small business owners who bought their GMC work trucks there. The truck sales and “supplemental” car sales they generate constitute a large portion of the actual profit BPG dealers make and they do not want to see GMC go away. Why would you replace a truck brand with a car brand, especially when this post is about too many brands – how many car brands do you need?

It is easy to justify two truck brands (one low end and one high end) and GMC has been pulling it’s weight and many have posted “make Chevy Trucks look like GMC’s”. Huh????!!!???

Isn’t that the same as keeping GMC?

This is not 1988 when Ford and GM were the only real players in the Full Size truck market, it is 2008 where Dodge and Toyota are viable players with attractive car lines complementing them, you cut GMC only if you are happy with 450,000 to 1,000,000 fewer annual sales and $3.2 Billion less in profits.

On top of that, look at how Toyota is responding - it cut truck production (predictable and logical), then it introduced a 500+ HP Tundra!

Sounds like they think the full size truck market will return to historical average sales levels when the housing market disaster plays out - and will be waiting to sell Tundras to anyone who wants one.

Toyota once again is looking forward and GM is in full panic mode cutting as fast as they can. The Tundra will be the best selling Full Size truck in the U.S. market by 2014 if GM cuts GMC if not before then.

When will GM learn?

Until gas goes down, I don't care what the economy does...truck sales will continue to decline. One of the largest construction companies in the country is located in my hometown...they are still buying TONS of vehicles, but fewer and fewer full-size trucks. The company is wanting to cut fuel costs, so they are buying small trucks and cars. They just purchased 8 Pontiac Vibes. Like one of the executives there I was talking to said: "Not every construction worker that has a company vehicle needs a truck, actually, very few of them 'need' one."

Your numbers are nice to look at, but I can tell you the more incentives GM is stacking up on the GMT-900 products, the less revenue GMC is bringing to the table. GMC is at a massive disadvantage in this market of high gas prices. The only vehicle not severely effected by it is the Acadia...so that is their one safeguard. While the other divisions have multiple safeguards.

I see little sense in having two truck lines with $4-$5 a gallon gas. Actually, it is quite stupid in my opinion. GM has a big problem of not being able to take care of all their divisions properly, so they need to get it together. It makes sense to cut the brand that has the redundant product...they are not going to be pulling out of a SINGLE market segment cutting GMC...where they would be cutting any other division.

Not only that, but if things keep going the way they are...I will not be surprised if GM cuts some of the full-size SUV's all together (not just the GMC ones).

GM would have had the best-selling truck for the last bazillion years if the Silverado didn't have the Sierra sucking some of it's volume.

[xyagentguy]

I definitely see your point nsap. And like I mentioned just a post ago, I can see people easily transitioning from Sierra to Silverado. Maybe people would even transition from Acadia to Outlook.. I don't know.

But I think I find it very hard to believe that Saturn buyers will simply assimilate into other GM products. At least the Saturn buyers I know personally, they barely acknowledge that it's a GM brand.

The suspense is KILLING me. When do you think we'll hear more concrete info??

If you ask me, they need to cut GMC and sell most of the stake in Hummer.

[megeebee]

"When in doubt,


run in Circles,


scream and shout"

[jamiepeterson2]

Saturn has been a drag on GMs resources far too long. It's time to pull the life support plug now. Saturn hasn't got a sufficient number of dealerships to market their product effectively on a national basis.

Buick and Pontiac, however, could run circles around Saturn if given the opportunity because of their abundance of dealers. Therefore all Saturn projects should be scrapped or emailed to BPG for consideration.

Saturn could survive as a Chevy sub-brand and as the new nameplate for the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid.

GMC should keep the Canyon and Sierra, and import the Opel Movano as well.
Hummer should be the SUV sub-brand of GMC for BPG.

This way nothing has to be cut and everything has a place in the market.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by jamiepeterson2

Saturn has been a drag on GMs resources far too long. It's time to pull the life support plug now. Saturn hasn't got a sufficient number of dealerships to market their product effectively on a national basis.

Buick and Pontiac, however, could run circles around Saturn if given the opportunity because of their abundance of dealers. Therefore all Saturn projects should be scrapped or emailed to BPG for consideration.

Saturn could survive as a Chevy sub-brand and as the new nameplate for the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid.

GMC should keep the Canyon and Sierra, and import the Opel Movano as well.
Hummer should be the SUV sub-brand of GMC for BPG.

This way nothing has to be cut and everything has a place in the market.

Oh yeah, you're in La-La-land alright.

Saturn a leech? Hardly. Saturn was completely independent until 2003, and GM starved them for product until then. How does that make them a leech? Sure, they have the lineup with the most new product, but they only had 3 cars up until 20 months ago. Saturn is now a/k/a Opel North America which would actually save money for GM. Engineer and design once, sell twice (well, more than that since Opel/Vauxhall/Holden are sold all over, now they can add Saturn to that and cover North America cheaply). Pontiac? Need to be all new. Buick? Need to be all new. They are the leeches. Saturn is just a marketing arm now, selling one car in two channels. Should GM just tell all those people who refuse to own any other GM car to take a hike? Should GM just tell all those people who would otherwise own a Toyota, Honda or Nissan to go ahead and buy them since GM no longer needs Saturn? Wasted customer base.

[toronadoGT]

Originally Posted by nsap

Buick is getting the Invicta as their world E2 car. It will be sold in the US and China both.

Ah, see this where things do get interesting.

So basically, this what I've been hearing on a few occasions: First China gets the short-wheelbase Insignia rebadged for Buick duty, receiving Buick-exclusive front and rear fascias and only retaining the mid-section of the Insignia. This car will be China only. Then you have the Invicta on the long-wheelbase EPII platform.

Now I know Mr. Vince Burlapp isn't the best source to quote from, but here is a recent article from his site with an interesting spy shot: http://www.burlappcars.com/2008/06/c...la-crosse.html

Look closely at the front fascia.

Also keep in mind Buick does have 3 cars to replace in China.

[jamiepeterson2]

Originally Posted by crazyjkz

Regardless of the reasoning behind it I think we can all agree that it was definitely a bad move for GM to put such a highly anticipated model such as the 2nd gen Aura on hold especially since Saturn desperately needs this model in their lineup as soon as humanly possible.

The current Aura is a solid fwd midsize sedan but it had unfortunately begun its life with a few bugaboos that I think some consumers weren't willing to overlook such as the outdated and unrefined 3500 pushrod V6/4-spd auto powertrain in the XE, cheap interior materials, and a lack of high-tech gadgetry options. And this makes the delay of the EPII Aura even that more disconcerting because the EPII Aura would resolve most of the current Aura's shortcomings and would give Saturn a much more competitive FWD midsize sedan offering.

The reality of the situation is that the current 08 Malibu is a much more realized and defined example of what the Aura should have been at its introduction due to the current Malibu's deletion of an outdated/unrefined OHV V6 powerplant, improved interior materials and design, and better brand identity/image over the current Aura; GM realizes this and I'm sure that most consumers realize this cold-hard fact as well.

I've seen more new Malibus on the road than Auras which is pretty scary considering that the Aura has been on the market twice as long as the 08 Malibu, so it's obvious that the cosumers out there feel more comfortable buying a Chevy Malibu over a Saturn Aura despite the many similarities between the two cars. What this means is that Saturn is going to need something a bit more premium than the Malibu and G6 if it's going to be able to make up for the gap in brand identity and brand image in order to lure consumers into Saturn dealerships.

The reason there is more Chevy Malibus on the road than Saturn Auras is that there are only 400 Saturn dealerships while Chevrolet commands over 4000 franchises. More selling points translates into more sales for GM. Also Malibu is a stronger cachet than Aura.

Saturn is running the wrong way down a one way street. As a viable business model it lacks substance and therefore a future. Trying to correct this deformity will only exasperate the problems and cost more money than already has been flushed down the drain.

[jamiepeterson2]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Oh yeah, you're in La-La-land alright.

Saturn a leech? Hardly. Saturn was completely independent until 2003, and GM starved them for product until then. How does that make them a leech? Sure, they have the lineup with the most new product, but they only had 3 cars up until 20 months ago. Saturn is now a/k/a Opel North America which would actually save money for GM. Engineer and design once, sell twice (well, more than that since Opel/Vauxhall/Holden are sold all over, now they can add Saturn to that and cover North America cheaply). Pontiac? Need to be all new. Buick? Need to be all new. They are the leeches. Saturn is just a marketing arm now, selling one car in two channels. Should GM just tell all those people who refuse to own any other GM car to take a hike? Should GM just tell all those people who would otherwise own a Toyota, Honda or Nissan to go ahead and buy them since GM no longer needs Saturn? Wasted customer base.

I never said Saturn was a leech. But come to think of it, they are sucking the life blood out of GM financially. Over $5 billion invested and still no profits??? Very costly experiment. Cut your losses and run.

Opel would fair much better with BPG as they have greater exposure in the marketplace. Saturn will never be able to sell the volume that BPG could without increasing the number of dealerships. That ain't gonna happen! GM is trying desperately to reduce the number of dealerships.

Saturn would fair much better as a niche product selling plug-in hybrids like the Chevy Volt. A separate dealer network for limited production vehicles makes sense when you include the specialized sales and service requirements of such vehicles. Bob Lutz has already indicated that Chevy's portfolio was full. It only makes sense therefore to transfer the technology to Saturn.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by jamiepeterson2

I never said Saturn was a leech. But come to think of it, they are sucking the life blood out of GM financially. Over $5 billion invested and still no profits??? Very costly experiment. Cut your losses and run.

Opel would fair much better with BPG as they have greater exposure in the marketplace. Saturn will never be able to sell the volume that BPG could without increasing the number of dealerships. That ain't gonna happen! GM is trying desperately to reduce the number of dealerships.

Saturn would fair much better as a niche product selling plug-in hybrids like the Chevy Volt. A separate dealer network for limited production vehicles makes sense when you include the specialized sales and service requirements of such vehicles. Bob Lutz has already indicated that Chevy's portfolio was full. It only makes sense therefore to transfer the technology to Saturn.

How are they sucking the lifeblood? They made a profit BEFORE GM took them 'into the fold'. Saturn isn't supposed to sell at BPG volume...not even BP volume. Saturn has a very dedicated and loyal customer base, of which most won't own a Japanese make nor a Chevy...what do you tell them? "Sorry, your money's no good to GM, thanks for your past loyalty. Now, please shop elsewhere, we don't want you anymore." Smart move.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by jamiepeterson2

The reason there is more Chevy Malibus on the road than Saturn Auras is that there are only 400 Saturn dealerships while Chevrolet commands over 4000 franchises. More selling points translates into more sales for GM. Also Malibu is a stronger cachet than Aura.

Saturn is running the wrong way down a one way street. As a viable business model it lacks substance and therefore a future. Trying to correct this deformity will only exasperate the problems and cost more money than already has been flushed down the drain.

Uh, they also make 4 times as many Malibus as they do Aura's. Think that might have something to do with it, too? Yeah, because being the North American Car of the Year means nothing. Because media accolades mean nothing. It's all about how many Auras are sold vs. how many dime-a-dozen (oh hell, a nickel, sorry) Malibus. Did someone is a Saturn run over your puppy or something? I think you're just looking to have an argument, nothing more.

[cbennie2]

Originally Posted by jamiepeterson2

The reason there is more Chevy Malibus on the road than Saturn Auras is that there are only 400 Saturn dealerships while Chevrolet commands over 4000 franchises. More selling points translates into more sales for GM. Also Malibu is a stronger cachet than Aura.

Saturn is running the wrong way down a one way street. As a viable business model it lacks substance and therefore a future. Trying to correct this deformity will only exasperate the problems and cost more money than already has been flushed down the drain.

According to your reasoning, based on dealers available...Chevrolet is a bigger leech than Saturn. Since in May, Saturn sold about a third the number of Malibu's at a much smaller dealer network. Chevrolet is only selling about 4 Malibu's per dealer and Saturn is selling closer to 13. Yeah, lets close those Saturn dealers since they are moving more metal...how does that make sense!!!

In addition, with Saturn becoming the outlet for Opel products, GM is only investing money to make Saturn's meet US standards. Where previously, they were making a complete product that was only for the NA market...now they are giving Opel an new outlet and increasing the options available to Saturn to sell.

[jzchev28]

well...its monday....wheres the NEW news????? im waitinggggggggggggggg

[Ed Arcuri]

Moments ago, I spoke to a young woman in my office. She wants to buy a Saturn Sky. She will not buy a Pontiac Solstice. She claims to have had too many problems with her current Pontiac and she said, Besides, Saturn service is to die for."
Saturn sells cars to people who would be tough to entice into any other GM store.
Keep Saturn.
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri
By the bye, I drive a Cadillac and I would consider any GM offering. . . . as long as I have at least one Cadillac!

[Al63240]

Originally Posted by jzchev28

well...its monday....wheres the NEW news????? im waitinggggggggggggggg

I'm with Chev, where's this big news we are supposed to get??