GMI Exclusive: 2010 Saturn Aura on "Hold"

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by zete

Saturn should be Opel. It just makes sense. Do with Saturn/Opel in North America what Toyota and Honda did when they burst onto the North American market: a few good products that excel at a particular task, as you've stated.

It's why I'd lump Saab and Holden in that mix, with Pontiac disappearing or being labeled as a "Pontiac by Holden" to ease the transition. An all import division. I never did understand Saturn-Saab dealerships.

The sooner GM simplifies their structure and leverages their global manufacturing to bring us cars we'd all like to see the better.

In the end it's the "Saturn" and "Pontiac" names that people are fixated on. I propose just saying: "Saturn by Opel" and "Pontiac by Holden" so that they can transition to full on import brands with unique characteristics and identities, something badge engineered cars never could do.

Exactly.

GM gets a good idea, introduces one vehicle, then after it becomes a hit they pile on a bunch of "badge engineered" additions which smother out the flame of the original hit.

Or in Saturn's case ignore the brand for years - then give it the badge engineered "L" series (a car that was not THAT bad other than bland styling) if I am not mistaken was one of the first GMNA cars to get the EcoTech 2.2L.

Patience GM, give brand(s) time to grow and feed them enough to keep them healthy.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by PURPLEIMPALA

Now you don't even need to squint.

LOL

Thanks, my eyes were getting tired.

The LaAura name is great! (point taken)

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Are you aware that you rarely get facts correct?

The Insignia (Aura/Regal?) has the following specs opposed to the Invicta (Lacrosse)

WB Length Width
107.8 190.2 71.1 Insignia
114.5 194.2 73.8 Invicta

which is similar (except for length which is being shortened on many cars)

WB Length Width
112.3 190.0 70.3 2008 Aura
115.5 204.0 74.0 2008 Lucerne

Looks like the Insignia is the basis for the next Aura/China Regal

WB Length Width
107.8 190.2 71.1 Insignia
112.3 190.0 70.3 2008 Aura

and the Invicta will ultimately replace the Lucerne

WB Length Width
114.5 194.2 73.8 Invicta
115.5 204.0 74.0 2008 Lucerne

This gives Buick the same line it has.

I also do not say that GM should 'give' the Aura to Buick (if you read the entire post).

"As much as I like the Aura, GM is doing the right thing here and IMO what GM should do with the Saturn brand from now until 2012.

The 2010 Aura should become the 2010 Buick Regal (THIS IS WHERE YOU STOPPED READING.)

I stated it this way because I do not think the Saturn brand is quite where it needs to be in order to properly equip the Insignia which is being moved up market (closer to where Buick currently is) and the 2010 Aura's price would hurt sales, but in 2 years (if GM markets it right) the Saturn brand would be able to handle it, in the interim the Estate (Wagon) vesion of the new Insignia could be offered and since it offers versatilty more like an midsize crossover than a sedan and the higher price would be easier to market.

What of the 2010-2012 Aura?

Keep the name but apply it to the Estate (Wagon) version of the Insignia and sell it as the Aura Avant, marketed as the high MPG 5-passenger (CUV, MPV?) companion to the 7-passenger Zafira. This will play into Saturn's focus on being an efficient "european" brand and give Saturn a mid-size entrant, and remember as much as we make a fuss about how small cars are popular in Europe, so are Wagons and they make an attractive alternative to someone who only needs a little more utility than a sedan offers."

I do wish some of you would give my posts the same respect as I do yours, and read the entire post before you reply, and please bear in mind I am no writer (never liked english in school) so if my posts are hard to grasp sometimes I apoligize.

The rest of my post named quite a few Opel models that should be Saturns in order to solidify the brand as what it originally was, an efficient small car brand.

After a few years Saturn would bring back the Aura Sedan since by then the brand would be ready to move "up market" as GM is doing with Opel, and the result in 3-5 years would be the Opel and Saturn lines matching vehicle for vehicle and aimed at the same demographic in the U.S. and Europe.

Insignia/Invicta are both EPSILON II. One is LWB, the other SWB. That is like saying the G6 and the old Malibu both needed to be sold as Chevys (one was LWB the other SWB). I don't CARE what the rest of your post said, once you start going off on what I think is a stupid tangent I am not going to read anymore.

FYI, I stopped reading the quoted post at the spec call outs for lengths and widths.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by zete

Saturn should be Opel. It just makes sense. Do with Saturn/Opel in North America what Toyota and Honda did when they burst onto the North American market: a few good products that excel at a particular task, as you've stated.

It's why I'd lump Saab and Holden in that mix, with Pontiac disappearing or being labeled as a "Pontiac by Holden" to ease the transition. An all import division. I never did understand Saturn-Saab dealerships.

The sooner GM simplifies their structure and leverages their global manufacturing to bring us cars we'd all like to see the better.

In the end it's the "Saturn" and "Pontiac" names that people are fixated on. I propose just saying: "Saturn by Opel" and "Pontiac by Holden" so that they can transition to full on import brands with unique characteristics and identities, something badge engineered cars never could do.

Zete you are aware that about 50% of the Holden lineup in some way overlaps with the Opel/Chevy Europe lineup.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Insignia/Invicta are both EPSILON II. One is LWB, the other SWB. That is like saying the G6 and the old Malibu both needed to be sold as Chevys (one was LWB the other SWB). I don't CARE what the rest of your post said, once you start going off on what I think is a stupid tangent I am not going to read anymore.

FYI, I stopped reading the quoted post at the spec call outs for lengths and widths.

Not surprised.

Was that a short enough post for you to read?

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Insignia/Invicta are both EPSILON II. One is LWB, the other SWB. That is like saying the G6 and the old Malibu both needed to be sold as Chevys (one was LWB the other SWB). I don't CARE what the rest of your post said, once you start going off on what I think is a stupid tangent I am not going to read anymore.

FYI, I stopped reading the quoted post at the spec call outs for lengths and widths.

Try to keep this short.

SWB and LWB?

One is nearly 3 inches WIDER than the other along with nearly 7 MORE inches of WB, putting it in another size class.

Do you know anything about cars?

[96_impala_ss]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Anybody else think that this is getting out of hand? I mean the whole, "OMGZZ THEY SHOULD GIVE THE AURA TO PONTIAC AND THE G6 TO BUICK AND THE LUCERNE TO CHEVY AND THE HHR TO GMC AND THE YUKON XL DENALI TO SAAB BLAH BLAH BLAHHH!!!111!!"
The Aura is NOT going to be a Pontiac, nor will it go to Buick when they've got the new LaCrosse on the way. I think we need to give GM the credit they deserve, they're not that stupid, and they won't move cars from one brand to the next, that just causes confusion with buyers. If the 2010 Aura's on hold, there's either a problem with it or they're tweaking something. Just because a car goes on hold doesn't mean the entire brand is going down. For all we know, they may just be considering giving the Aura to another assembly plant so that Fairfax can focus on the Malibu (which, as GM's volume selling Epsilon, is more important than the Aura).

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

The annoying a$$ "WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CHEVY AND A CADILLAC WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FORD AND A LINCOLN WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HONDA AND A TOYOTA" needs to stop. Every car brand has a different target market, and I dont know how non GM brands came into it anyway. Chevy markets the mainstream buyer, GMC markets those who want more than a Chevy truck, Pontiac (and i laugh at this) at the performance oriented buyer, Buick (once again i laugh) at those who want near luxury but not a Caddy, Cadillac at the Luxury market, and Saturn at the import market. Do they reach their target market?? maybe maybe not.
This is a forum, where you can voice OPINIONS. Do I think Saturn should be dropped in favor of Opel?? Yea. Not because I hate Saturn, but because the mainstream car buyer AKA the appliance (toyohonda) buyer looks at Saturn and says cheap plastic car. Like I said in my earlier post. Some people were surveyed about the Aura and most said they would buy it without knowing the manufacturer. They were told it was a Saturn and more than half of those who said yes said no. Most people still think that Saturn is cheap plastic cars, the same way people still think of Kia as cheap unreliable (cheap part being true) cars. Then they bring Hyundai into it and most people prefer the Hyundai over the Kia even though theyre owned by the same company.

[Ming]

I haven't read through every reply, but I'll take a guess against the Chicken Little ideas floating around:

The new Aura was going to be a bit too bloated and would have gotten worse fuel economy than the current model.

Rather than face ridicule and a drop in already mediocre sales from a drop in fuel economy with gas where it is, GM is considering what can be done to improve fuel economy (at least to current MPGs with the 4-cylinder) before everything is hard-set in place for manufacturing.

Nothing dire about that...but I know that pessimism is the order of the day with GM and its financial condition.

[SaabKing]

My local Saturn dealer just closed and moved into a P-B-G location. Has anyone else seen this happen in their area? I was really looking forward to the new Aura as my 9-3 is aging quite ungracefully.

[Ming]

Of course the other idea is that a merged P-B-S arrangement would mean redundancy in the Aura. I mean, given how GM has operated in the past, does anyone really think that a Buick and Saturn version of the same car would need to be under the same dealer roof? What, think they'll have significantly different powertrains or anything along those lines? If the Acadia/Enclave are any example, then it would be mostly styling, and styling differences would be much less impactful in a mid-sizer than in a big crossover. They would look like up-trim Sunfires and mid-trim Cavaliers on the same lots. The current Aura is a fine "luxury" car in certain trim levels. Advocating 2 reskins of the same car is not a whole lot different than supporting the existence of Mercury-Ford dealerships.

I'd prefer to see cars like the Astra, Meriva, Corsa and Zafira emphasized under a Saturn sub-brand of P-B-S.

[zete]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Zete you are aware that about 50% of the Holden lineup in some way overlaps with the Opel/Chevy Europe lineup.

Yup. But I only see a few cars for Pontiac, not having the full Holden line over. Just RWD/AWD vehicles. Effectively:

• G8 (Zeta)
• G6 (LWB Alpha)
• GTO (effectively a 2-door G6)
• G4 (Kappa II or SWB Alpha or whatever underpins the next Solstice)
• Solstice (Kappa II or SWB Alpha)

Focused on performance and totally niche.

And, yeah, I know no Alpha's exist yet, but it would provide a North American outlet for the cars.

[crazyjkz]

Did anyone ever consider the possibility that GM is putting the 2010 Aura on hold to build up media/consumer hype and anticipation as an attempt to proactively increase sales potential prior to its release due to the unsatisfactory sales numbers of the current Aura? If that was GM's intention for putting it on hold then they have already succeeded in a way because look at how many people on this board are jumping to so many different conclusions and over-hyping the entire situation.

Because like many others have already pointed out, there really aren't many valid or logical reasons as to why they would be putting the 2nd gen Aura on hold. You could argue the fuel economy point, but like others have pointed out the 2.4 Ecotec/6-spd auto combo is already putting out very competitive fuel economy figures in the Malibu LTZ. Also, from what I read on C&D about the 2nd gen Aura, GM is also planning a dual-mode hybrid model Aura for the 2010 model year with the same hybrid tech they are using in the upcoming 2009 Saturn Vue dual-model hybrid model which would give it further fuel economy advantages. And on top of that, even the conventional V6 2nd gen Aura model would most likely use the 3.6HF with Direct Injection which has been getting extremely competitive fuel economy figures in the new CTS.

So when you look at the entire situation logically and based on the cold-hard facts their aren't many solid reasons as to why GM would be putting such a highly anticipated new model such as the 2nd gen Aura on hold, which leads me to believe that due to the current slumping sales numbers this could all be a ploy to try and bolster sales potential before the 2nd gen Aura even arrives into dealerships.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Insignia/Invicta are both EPSILON II. One is LWB, the other SWB. That is like saying the G6 and the old Malibu both needed to be sold as Chevys (one was LWB the other SWB). I don't CARE what the rest of your post said, once you start going off on what I think is a stupid tangent I am not going to read anymore.

FYI, I stopped reading the quoted post at the spec call outs for lengths and widths.

Well, Chevy did have two wheel base Malibu's, the regular and Maxx.
I understand where he is trying to go, but the Lucern is not going to be replaced by the Invicta. The Invicta will replace LaX.

Insignia would have turned into Aura.

Malibu and G6 will ride on LWB EP2 while G6 Coupe will ride on SWB EP2 (from what I understand)

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Zete you are aware that about 50% of the Holden lineup in some way overlaps with the Opel/Chevy Europe lineup.

Exactly. Like I said before, Pontiac and Saturn will eventually share the same ideas, same design, same mentality, and only one will survive.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by zete

Yup. But I only see a few cars for Pontiac, not having the full Holden line over. Just RWD/AWD vehicles. Effectively:

• G8 (Zeta)
• G6 (LWB Alpha)
• GTO (effectively a 2-door G6)
• G4 (Kappa II or SWB Alpha or whatever underpins the next Solstice)
• Solstice (Kappa II or SWB Alpha)

Focused on performance and totally niche.

And, yeah, I know no Alpha's exist yet, but it would provide a North American outlet for the cars.

Dont expect Pontiac to get much of Alpha now. If it gets Alpha, it will most likely be the 2nd gen Solstice.
EP2 will play a big part in Pontiac's line up...again.

[plane]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Exactly. Like I said before, Pontiac and Saturn will eventually share the same ideas, same design, same mentality, and only one will survive.

Fact, speculation or fait accompli?

Sky and Solstice overlap.
Aura and G6 overlap.
Vue and Torrent overlap.
Outlook overlaps with Enclave and Acadia at PGB dealerships.

Astra has no Pontiac counterpart.
G8 has not Saturn counterpart.

We're down to Astra and G8.
Everything else is duplicated.

Can't wait for Monday.