Behind The Saturn Shutdown: Roger Penske Explains What Happened

[khefer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

To all the Hate-America-Firsters, thank you for not buying American!

if you guys only want gm-lovers to post here, why do you invite other people to post?

[Quixote88]

Originally Posted by CheetahDC

Is the 3.0 that bad in the CTS? It's like 360 pounds lighter than the SRX...?

I've driven the SRX and the CTS Sportwagon equipped with the 3.0. I have yet to drive the sedan with the 3.0, but I can't imagine it would be as different from the Wagon as it needs to be for me to consider it. Now I wouldn't call it "bad" for average drivers. Both vehicles I had driven were very smooth in their power delivery. I'm sure it would be adequate, actually more than adequate, for most drivers' needs. But I am a little spoiled in the fact that I had an LS1 powered Camaro just prior to my 3.6 powered Aura XR... My Camaro was fast(12.96 quarter time at 70k miles, with the only "mod" being racing slicks on the rear). The 3.6 powered Auras and Malibus are very quick. I don't need Camaro SS/Z-28 type speed, but I do need a little more than I think the 3.0 can provide... Especially on a car that would be at the top end of my affordability scale. The Camaro I would probably consider is the V6 version, as its power is just fine for my needs. Match that with its fuel economy and available manual tranny and it's a good choice for me.

The Regal has my attention... Especially with its available AWD and powertrain options. We'll see... Maybe something else will enter the equation. But the chances of me staying with GM are very, very good.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by khefer

if you guys only want gm-lovers to post here, why do you invite other people to post?

I don't believe I have ever seen that invitation, to be honest.

Uh...what's the name of the website again? I keep forgetting, and so do you it seems.

[DC12MANY]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Just to comment on that statement from a different perspective; Renault’s Board of Directors understood what mix satisfies their business interests and plans. They reviewed what they currently possess also have access to and reviewed the assets offered (SATURN), they declined, even though their CEO Carlos Ghosn saw value in it. This is what sometimes a Board of Directors must do to protect the stakeholders from an emotional and costly acquisition using the corporation business model and market analysis.

However, one can only wonder the outcome if GM Board of Directors had envisioned marketing each of the company’s existing brands--prior to commitment to create Saturn; Oldsmobile probably would have survived and Chevrolet might have benefited from implementation of some Saturn’s innovative marketing concepts. Consequently, the cash burn of the early 2000’s might never have occurred, is it possible to speculate that GM might have still been an financial powerhouse?

You assume that the oldsmobile dealers would agree to make changes to the way they operated. They didn't, told gm to pound salt and gm pulled the cord on them. It was quite costly but they(gm) did it.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by DC12MANY

You assume that the oldsmobile dealers would agree to make changes to the way they operated. They didn't, told gm to pound salt and gm pulled the cord on them. It was quite costly but they(gm) did it.

Having been in corporate America for over 30 years, and being a private entrepreneur I understand the difference between business decisions and sophomoric bravado. GM is an auto manufacturer selling to dealers whom in turn must sell the public. Going back to Oldsmobile, when GM closed the franchise-- most of the dealers, just took on other Brands, such as Honda, Kia, Nissan, etc. GM lost customers and market share, some unrecoverable! GM gambled with another brand and as it looks today, took a total loss and had to go through Bankruptcy.

Therefore, rethink who really lost that fight, IMO GM lost Big Time, and they are still losing!

[prototype66]

Originally Posted by khefer

if you guys only want gm-lovers to post here, why do you invite other people to post?

I don't believe you were sent an invite. It's a free country but don't expect all hugs and kisses when you come into our neighborhood and act like that. Have some common sense . How would you feel?
I for one would like to ask you to mind your manners please sir.

[prototype66]

Originally Posted by FierySolstice

VW owns Seat, no what that would of happened either.

So why not sell more cars under their umbrella? as everyone else says....GM does it!
Still would rather GM keep Saturn and Pontiac.
Time will tell.

[Rocket 88]

Originally Posted by WWI Flying Ace

So what does happen to Saturn now? I haven't been following this for the past couple months, since before the deal fell through. Last I knew, the above quote was the deal. Now that there is no Penske deal, are they still going to make Saturns for a couple years, or is Saturn done making cars and just selling existing stock and the dealers are just on a death watch till they are all gone ala Pontiac?

I believe GM cut production once the Penske deal died, but it doesn't matter. Saturn dealers aren't moving much product and are closing up shop one by one. I'd be surprised if there was Saturn dealership open in 6 months.

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

GM is an auto manufacturer selling to dealers whom in turn must sell the public. Going back to Oldsmobile, when GM closed the franchise-- most of the dealers, just took on other Brands, such as Honda, Kia, Nissan, etc. GM lost customers and market share, some unrecoverable! GM gambled with another brand and as it looks today, took a total loss and had to go through Bankruptcy.

Therefore, rethink who really lost that fight, IMO GM lost Big Time, and they are still losing!

Considering GM's brand ladder sort of encourages less brand loyalty in a way (move up from a Chevy to a Pontiac, to an Olds or Buick and then Caddy) I always found the numbers for how many customers GM lost from Oldsmobile a bit suspect. Sure a lot of folks did take off to other companies, but that probably has happened a great deal from Buick too, and they stayed in business.

I still own an Olds and a Saturn. When they closed Olds, I never felt that alienated from GM. As a former Pontiac owner I feel a bit angry by GM killing that brand. I suspect many Saturn owners who are less likely to be traditional GM buyers will be the most likely to go elsewhere.

[ksr]

Originally Posted by Rick 2000

I am sorry to see Saturn go , glad to see that we don't will have
1 more Import brand .

Obviously it's a shame for the people losing their jobs. But, even though there will be costs to shut down the brand, it is one less competitor for GM.

For GM long-term, this is not a bad development.

[khefer]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

I don't believe I have ever seen that invitation, to be honest.

Originally Posted by prototype66

I don't believe you were sent an invite. It's a free country but don't expect all hugs and kisses when you come into our neighborhood and act like that. Have some common sense . How would you feel?
I for one would like to ask you to mind your manners please sir.

i'm talking about the guys that complain directly addressing non-american car devotees and then ask why non-american car devotees are on this site.

i have never made any post disparaging american cars specifically or engaged in inappropriate behavior here.

[ksr]

I really don't understand the decision by Renault's board. It seemed like a no-lose situation for them.

Supply cars to a market where you don't currently have a presence. Penske is a successful, established seller of cars who would have been purchasing vehicles from Renault to re-sell.

What was the downside for Renault?

[prototype66]

Originally Posted by khefer

i'm talking about the guys that complain directly addressing non-american car devotees and then ask why non-american car devotees are on this site.

i have never made any post disparaging american cars specifically or engaged in inappropriate behavior here.

yes that is understood. Still keep in mind this is after all a GM enthusiast site. At leased that's what it started out as......

What about say Citreon? Not that I want a new competitor for GM but I have heard other people mention the french firm. They are paired with Peugeot and I believe Fiat as well to A lesser extent along with a very minor connection with Toyota. I don't know anything about the quality of Peugeot or Citroen, are there any of our friends in Europe can shed some light on them for me.

[graycav56]

Originally Posted by ksr

Obviously it's a shame for the people losing their jobs. But, even though there will be costs to shut down the brand, it is one less competitor for GM.

For GM long-term, this is not a bad development.

Agree. While the sale of Saturn would have given GM some short term cash infusion (I am assuming here...I may be totally wrong), the long term effect would be one more competitor taking another bite of the US Market.

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by ksr

I really don't understand the decision by Renault's board. It seemed like a no-lose situation for them.

Supply cars to a market where you don't currently have a presence. Penske is a successful, established seller of cars who would have been purchasing vehicles from Renault to re-sell.

What was the downside for Renault?

They do have a presence here, though - Nissan. The possible models Saturn would receive would have been on platforms shared with Nissan products, even if not the exact product sold here.

[Hitman1970]

We are test-driving a 2009 Outlook XR on Wednesday. If my wife likes it we may complete Team Orphan with a Lambda at 0% for 72 months.