ZR1 Nurburgring Video

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by baloo

Eh, I wonder if that person has ever raced cars near top speed. A 0.4 sec lead at 180 mph equals over 100 feet. Putting 100 feet on a car at these speeds is very very difficult, even with a substantial power difference.

Umm.

Road and Track 90mph - 120mph:

GTR = 5.7 seconds
Z06 = 3.3 seconds

So from just 90mph to 120mph, the Z06 opened up a 2.4 second lead. As the speed gets faster, the gap gets even bigger. And that is the Z06 which has over 100 less HP than the ZR1.

Like I said, I can see why people call shenanigans when the 480hp GTR is keeping up with a ZR1 in the straights.

[blank disk]

There is a video that has a split screen of the ZR-1 with the GT-R going at same start/stop points.

I saw it at Autoblog. It was really cool.

[baloo]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Umm.

Road and Track 90mph - 120mph:

GTR = 5.7 seconds
Z06 = 3.3 seconds

So from just 90mph to 120mph, the Z06 opened up a 2.4 second lead. As the speed gets faster, the gap gets even bigger. And that is the Z06 which has over 100 less HP than the ZR1.

That's not how it works. It got to 120 mph 2.4 seconds quicker, but that doesn't mean it's 2.4 sec ahead. In fact the ZR1 would be less than 0.2 sec ahead after 3.3 seconds.

The simple fact is, physics make it very very difficult to open up a substantial lead at those speeds.

[redTT]

Originally Posted by baloo

That's not how it works. It got to 120 mph 2.4 seconds quicker, but that doesn't mean it's 2.4 sec ahead. In fact the ZR1 would be less than 0.2 sec ahead after 3.3 seconds.

The simple fact is, physics make it very very difficult to open up a substantial lead at those speeds.

What are you talking about with your numbers? E. Haskell's reasoning does makes sense the Corvette ZO6 has more power, less weight and longer gearing. Im very confused.

[baloo]

Originally Posted by redTT

What are you talking about with your numbers? E. Haskell's reasoning does makes sense the Corvette ZO6 has more power, less weight and longer gearing. Im very confused.

I can see that. What I'm talking about is that it's extremely difficult to put much time between you and a slower car at high speeds. That's because the acceleration in 5th and 6th is much weaker, and that means the difference in speed between the two cars after a certain amount of time is a lot smaller than it would be at lower speeds.

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

First of all, I agree that a comparison between the Z06 and standard GT-R is more in order, based upon price.

But be sure, even though this video is "cool" there actually is lots of information embedded here. Racing teams actually use in-car-video to analyze hot laps. You can bet GM will get it's hands on a GT-R and drive one themselves and see what Nissan did. But before that, they have this video. You can clearly see the dynamics of both cars well represented here.

I've had some time to watch both of these cars, and watch the drivers hands and how the car responds. A few things stand out to me. I by no means call myself an expert. I've been tracking for a few years now, been to a driving school, understand the concepts of balance, over/under-steer, but am no expert. I learn from talking with other drivers.

One thing, the GT-R has paddle shifters, vs. the H-pattern shifter in the Vette. You talk with any of the drivers in the Rolex Series or ALMS and the majority will probably tell you they prefer the standard shifter over the paddle shifter. But they won't say that in front of the car owner. The standard shifter is one more element for the driver to get "right", lap after lap after lap.

The GT-R appears smoother through corners, but does appear to have more understeer through each corner. You can see this when the driver turns in to each corner, but has to turn the wheel harder as the car is not responding. They call that "pushing" in NASCAR. The term "drives like a truck" is also used. Understeer, however, is a safer condition than oversteer. That's why many American cars have progressive understeer.

The Vette appears to be more of a handful for the driver. Turn in is fine, but I am seeing a quite a bit of oversteer past the apex (the red/white curbing on the inside of the corner), "drifting", on the corner exits. Also called "loose" in NASCAR paralance. Loose on exit is OK, but loose on entry is not good. I only see a loose exit for the Vette. Entry looks fine. And for a car this well engineered that's what I would expect. Only your "Friday Night racer" could possibly see a loose entry.

Again, I am no expert. This is just what I have observed watching these videos.

Mid-engined, I am convinced will help settle down the Corvette, and help it turn in better lap times. Mid-engined will help the Vette get more from that LSx engine.

And I do agree that a comparison with the Z06 and GT-R is more representative based upon price. ZR1 and GT-R V-spec is also a good comparison.

Although I would love to 'diss on the Nissan. Nissan has an impressive car here with the GT-R. They've done their homework. This will only force the next Vette to be even better.

But as there is a debate between the turbo guys and naturally-aspirated guys, there needs to be an equal debate between the AWD and RWD guys.

And to all the Nissan guys who found this thread using Google. This is a car I am sure to see at some HPDE's (High Performance Driving Events) along with your stable of BMW M's, RX-7's, Miata's, Porsches and Vettes.

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

Originally Posted by 1487

my understanding is that the GTR ran on factory tires that are not on the US car but are available in Japan. Also, even though we know THAT GTR did that time its doubtful a US spec car like the one in the latest C&D issue could duplicate that time. The GTR in C&D was only .6secs faster than the Z06 around the track and it was beaten handily by the Viper gtr. Every GTR tested by C&D has been slower than the last one. Only the third one is a true US production car.

Tires I believe are equal. The GT-R was running Dunlop SP Sports



My understanding the ZR1 was running Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's

[Firebird00]

The rumble the ZR1 makes is just heavenly

[redTT]

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

Tires I believe are equal. The GT-R was running Dunlop SP Sports



My understanding the ZR1 was running Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's

Does the treadwear rating of 220 disadvantage the Corvette ZR1 compared with Nissan's 140?

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

Originally Posted by redTT

Does the treadwear rating of 220 disadvantage the Corvette ZR1 compared with Nissan's 140?

I would say so. Assuming the ZR1 was running the Pilot's. The last time I checked Wiki's site, that is what they said the ZR1 was running. Now it's blank for tires.

Many guys running Corvettes at the track will run the Kumho MX (220) or the Kumho V700 series (50). The Kumho V700 series is a DOT approved tire, but you will wear out the tire if you have to drive very far (+100 miles) to the track.

I would say that treadwear benefited the GT-R. A treadwear rating of 220 is pretty standard for what you would get from any performance car from a manufacturer.

I think for all these runs, the manufacture should be running tires with a treadwear of 220.

After I posted my last post, I wondered if that would explain the ZR1 getting loose.

Also, if you listen to cars on a track, a car with a tire specifically set up for racing, such as a treadwear around 50 will make less, if any, noise, than a car with a tire with a treadwear around 220.

Tires make a huge difference.

The Nissan guys are probably chuckling at this post, but there is allot of truth to selection of tire.

[firefighter]

Don't forget the GT-R hqad "shaved" tires to improve grip. If you go back to all the hype from when the 350Z was new and see what Nissan claimed and then what came out, you will see why anything they claim is to be questioned. If you just think logically the GT-R can not live up to the numbers Nissan is putting out unless the published weight and power numbers are innacurate. It boils down to this, more weight+less power can't beat Less weight and more power.

Also I am not opposed to a Mid Engine Vette sacraligious (sp?) as it may be heck I was glad to see the pop up headlights go. But I do wonder how much of an advantage their may be with the C6 be pretty much 50/50 weight balance.

[SDRacing]

What would the possibility be for the Corvettes price tag to remain as it is if it were to go mid-engine?