Toronto Star article on GM plant closings

[paul8488]

This is an article I came across in the Toronto Star. What jumped out is this line:

Frank Fuhringer, who's worked for GM more than 28 years, thought about steering his son to the company a couple years ago but the former construction worker did not wish the stress upon him.

"It's too hard of a place," said Fuhringer, 52, who makes $70,000 a year driving finished cars out of the factory into a lot.

Not looking to incite a flame war here... but come on! $70,000?!? Half that amount would be a more than decent salary for such work. I wonder if the union would rather see 3600 jobs be chopped from GM Canada, or if they'd be willing to accept pay realignment and fewer job losses (assuming GM Canada would even go for it)?

One other thing I read in another article is that they hope to lose many of the jobs (GM says 75%, the CAW is hoping for almost 100%) through attrition and retirement. That does help soften the blow (they're not flat-out laying off 3600 people tomorrow), but the fact remains that a plant is closing. This other article also mentioned that even though Oshawa#2 is high quality, it's tooled for large sedans right now, and there'd be a huge cost to converting to a different product. Still, seems like a waste of some incredibly talented and dedicated workers. Hopefully there'll be an upturn for GM over the next few years and they can bring something else into Oshawa. Though of course all the affected US cities will be hoping for the same thing.


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...acodalogin=yes

[joey]

70K? I assume that's Canadian dollars so more like 60K in US$.
I'm sure most engines wil be built outside N. America down the road. CAW deserves this after allowing that crap Chinese 3.4L go into CAMI.

[neshapop]

Originally Posted by paul8488

This is an article I came across in the Toronto Star. What jumped out is this line:


Not looking to incite a flame war here... but come on! $70,000?!? Half that amount would be a more than decent salary for such work. I wonder if the union would rather see 3600 jobs be chopped from GM Canada, or if they'd be willing to accept pay realignment and fewer job losses (assuming GM Canada would even go for it)?

One other thing I read in another article is that they hope to lose many of the jobs (GM says 75%, the CAW is hoping for almost 100%) through attrition and retirement. That does help soften the blow (they're not flat-out laying off 3600 people tomorrow), but the fact remains that a plant is closing. This other article also mentioned that even though Oshawa#2 is high quality, it's tooled for large sedans right now, and there'd be a huge cost to converting to a different product. Still, seems like a waste of some incredibly talented and dedicated workers. Hopefully there'll be an upturn for GM over the next few years and they can bring something else into Oshawa. Though of course all the affected US cities will be hoping for the same thing.

I agree, myself as an engineer would dream for such a salary, my wife as high school teacher would kill for that kind of money and they are unionized too. Recently I saw on TV that Statistics Canada announced that Oshawa was the city with the highest family income in Canada (~80K!!!). And you know what, a lot of them outsourcing Engineering jobs to India and China too.

It they are good workers they would find jobs elswhere, those days with the same secure job in your home town for decades are long gone. Babyboomers got all the money and benefits (my, retired in 57 as electrician, father in law is getting more than me) and left our X generation to with NAFTA, global economy,...this math just does not add up.

I feel bad for GM and their employees but...life sucks and you die.

[Cortazzo]

The buick lacross and pontiac grand prix are built at oshawa, when these products are redesigned, they could easily be incorporated into one of GM's flexible plants, or they could be going to RWD... I don't think it's an issue of GM shutting down low quality factories, most of their cars and trucks are up to snuff these days, it's just that have way too much capacity, so even good factories might have to go.

[momo67]

70 grand!!!??? WTF? I guess that's around $56k US, which is more than I made right after getting my MBA. And I was one of the lucky ones- there are plenty of unemployed MBAs right now who would kill for that guy's job. And this uneducated POS is complaining.

paul8488 is right - it would obviously (obvious to sane people, but evidently not to the CAW/UAW) make sense for this guy to take something like a 25% pay cut to 'only' $42,000 US for driving a car 100 feet every day instead of losing 100% of his salary. I guess the math is too complicated for them.

Are you telling me that the avg. Canadian high school dropout or even graduate wouldn't take that kind of money? Plus free healthcare and a pension? I know, the guy in the article is 52 and may have been there for 30 years to get to his $70k CAN salary. But if he's that devoid of talent and ambition that he's driving a car 100 feet for a living at age 52, then he doesn't DESERVE a high salary. And don't give me the phony UAW line about how we're 'destroying the middle class'. This guy shouldn't be in the middle class in the first place. We're just weeding out or restructuring the middle class back to where it should be.

- End of rant -

[61BelAir]

I liked the part where the father said "I didn't want my son to have to deal with the stress"

I guess trying to figure out where to park the cars can be kind of stressful. For $70k i'd deal with the stress.

[01cavalier]

For that kind of money, Id be glad to deal with stress, even if it is Canadian money...the middle class is being redefined I guess. I dont think that some saying companies are trying to get rid of the middle class is right, some companies are trying to just survive. Any market these days has gotten so much mroe competetive that companies will try to save money where they can to keep from raising prices, since that will be looked at as bad by most.

[asim]

This translate to about $59,400 USD. Which is still a lot for driving cars into a parking lot.

[dindak]

CAW auto workers are over paid, but they don't seem to get that. I remeber with over time there were workers at Oshawa pulling in almost $100K during boom years not very long ago.

I think GM Canada will keep #1 going some how though. Closing the top quality plant in North America is pretty dumb IMO. Makes for bad publicity and bad relations with the union. IE. Work hard and we will shut you down anyway.

[mjd1001]

Originally Posted by 61BelAir

I liked the part where the father said "I didn't want my son to have to deal with the stress"

I guess trying to figure out where to park the cars can be kind of stressful. For $70k i'd deal with the stress.

If he 'steered' his son into another line of work.....well...what kind of stress will his son have to deal with in a job making the same money in the private sector?

[chevycanada]

The most ironic part of the whole thing is...how many of the employees at Oshawa or any of the other plants don't drive a GM. The answer....LOTS

I have said for ages if you work for GM you should be required to drive a GM or the same for Ford, Toyota, Honda or whoever.

Shouldn't people in Canada and the US consider supporting the North American economy when they are purchasing a new car? If your going to buy a Toyota or Honda, the very least you can do is buy one assembled in North America. Although even then most of the profits go overseas. And if your driving an import....you best not be complaining about layoffs or how Big Bad GM is hurting so many communities.

Support your economy buy GM!

[cfch3399]

Maybe there is justice in the world and this is it's way of saying that you can't get away with people with no education making that kind of money while people with PHds and Masters degrees make a fraction of that.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by chevycanada

Shouldn't people in Canada and the US consider supporting the North American economy when they are purchasing a new car?

Okay, I think you make a valid point... but we just closed a thread on this exact topic! It's kinda touchy... so don't get people started! But welcome to GMi!

[versa]

$70,000 CDN for being basically a lot boy?

[logansowner]

Hmmm, a couple years ago I was doing the exact same thing, moving cars from lot to lot at a very large GM dealership, different, yet the same. You know hwo much I made? $8/hr, and I was **************** happy with it. Stress my azz.