Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again - Page 3

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Thread: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

  1. #31
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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Hybrids are a tiny portion of the market even 15 years after the first Prius. It's generally less than 3% of the total cars sold in a month. It's going to take another decade or two to even get to 10%. Nobody is getting close to the goals they set out as goals as far as EV vehicles go. Gonna be an interesting road for GM after the ELR.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Quote Originally Posted by john1701a View Post
    That's because profit was achieved before the second generation was rolled out.

    Gas was also dirt cheap back then, there wasn't pressure to reduce consumption or emissions, and buyers didn't get a tax-credit.




    That "over promise, under deliver" strikes again. It shouldn't have declared to be a "game changer". Expectations were set for mainstream sales volume in the second year. That wasn't realistic considering the state of the market and the production cost. There's also the 500 million shares of GM the federal government would like to sell back without a large loss.

    Looked upon as a niche, Volt is doing fine. There isn't a minimum required to become business-sustaining and using tax incentives are fine. It's that jump to middle-market consumers which presents the challenge still being faced.

    The heavy emphasis on monthly sales continues to contribute to the problem too. Enthusiasts don't really like to address what it takes to be profitable or actual need. The focus continues to be on want.
    BTW the Volt outsold the Yaris last month. The Yaris is a mainstream car to you isn't it?

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    The thing I find highly encouraging here is that 3-series owners are trading in on Volts. Says to me these cars are fashion statements, which is exactly why I've been saying the Cadillac ELR is going to do well. Electric cars aren't a rational buy. They're a statement buy - people buy them for the message they send to others. Layer the electric "look at me" onto the Cadillac style and luxury "look at me" and you've got a winner.

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Quote Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
    Hybrids are a tiny portion of the market even 15 years after the first Prius. It's generally less than 3% of the total cars sold in a month. It's going to take another decade or two to even get to 10%. Nobody is getting close to the goals they set out as goals as far as EV vehicles go. Gonna be an interesting road for GM after the ELR.
    691,281 Prius were sold in the first 10 months of this year. That's a sizeable chunk of Toyota's annual production. No amount of statistical spin with percentages can change that reality. They're doing exactly as intended, replacing traditional production with hybrids.

    Notice how Ford is pushing C-Max & Fusion hybrids & plug-ins. They too pursue the transistion away from traditional vehicles.

    How is GM going to achieve business-sustaining profit with so few Volt sales and such heavy dependency on tax-credits?

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Even at 700k, that isn't 10% of Toyota production. No spin there and I'm not surprised you come in here claiming spin. Too much Johnny boy. Facts are facts no matter how much you dream to be false.

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Quote Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
    Even at 700k, that isn't 10% of Toyota production. No spin there and I'm not surprised you come in here claiming spin. Too much Johnny boy. Facts are facts no matter how much you dream to be false.
    Failing is defined by what?
    Last edited by john1701a; 11-21-2012 at 05:06 PM.

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Quote Originally Posted by john1701a View Post
    Failing is defined by what?
    I think the following post by Zete describes "fail" pretty well
    Thoughts on the Prius after the years

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Same old responses from the same people desperate to avoid the realities of business and refusing to acknowledge the needs of middle-market. That's failing.

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Quote Originally Posted by john1701a View Post
    Same old responses from the same people desperate to avoid the realities of business and refusing to acknowledge the needs of middle-market. That's failing.
    Just like the Prius when it came out? A product doesn't have to make money instantly to be deemed a success. Stop trying to make your point the only one that matters because frankly yours is on the wrong side of the line in the sand. To me, there is no line as any movement away from petroleum dependence is good while you seem to think that if it doesn't follow along with Toyota the company is wrong. While I don't root for Toyota I certainly don't wish them failure.

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    too little, too slowly

    That was the concern and it wasn't stated by me. The auto-task force made it quite clear that the situation we are now observing is what needed to be avoided. Making excuses for continued reliance rather then stating clear & aggressive goals is an indication enough hasn't been done.

    Volt not achieving mainstream volume can only persist for so long before some other step must be taken.

    What are the expectations for year 3 ?

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    How many years in the US did the Prius not achieve mainstream volume? It was too expensive for the price of gas here. The Volt is dealing with the same thing, it needs higher gas prices to be cost effective and reach mainstream volume.

    You gave the Prius the opportunity to find a market, but refuse to allow the Volt the same thing. Now that Ford has a Cmax and Fusion plug in to compete with the Volt and Prius it has become more obvious how weak the PIP is.

    The Volt would do well in Japan if there was an actual open market there, but competition is very restricted in Japan by both consumer attitude and government control. The Volt is up over 300% in global sales this year. Not improving very fast huh John?

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Quote Originally Posted by john1701a View Post
    Same old responses from the same people desperate to avoid the realities of business and refusing to acknowledge the needs of middle-market. That's failing.
    Same old posts from the same old paid Toyota hack desperate to avoid the reality that the Volt would have suited his driving pattern better than the PiP. That's epic fail.

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Quote Originally Posted by supermoto View Post
    How many years in the US did the Prius not achieve mainstream volume? It was too expensive for the price of gas here. The Volt is dealing with the same thing, it needs higher gas prices to be cost effective and reach mainstream volume.
    It took until year 3, hence asking the same about Volt. Of course, Volt wasn't configured to be affordable. Prius was. A second model of Volt with a smaller battery-pack is needed to increase volume and lower cost.

    As for wanting higher gas prices, you've lost touch if you think that will happen and people will flock to Volt. Haven't you notice the huge increase in smaller traditional vehicle purchases?

    Time is running out. We didn't have an urgency to reduce emissions & consumption back then. Now, we do. There weren't tax-credits available back then either.

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Again with the lies. You need some new rhetoric.

    It took 6 model years for the Prius to sell over 60k in the US. Took almost eight for Japan. Pretty easy to look up those numbers. Wasn't until MY eight they made it over 60k worldwide.

    Also, tax incentives were available then too. Sure, the amount wasn't as much but it was a decent percentage off if you qualified.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius#section_6

    Did/are you taking the tax incentive on your PIP?
    Last edited by bballr4567; 11-22-2012 at 10:24 AM.

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    Re: Think GM's Volt is Failing? Think Again

    Prius was a cheap car that sold for far more than a better one. In 07 when I bought a Fusion I compared the Prius. It was smaller with much less hip and shoulder room, no better than a Focus. It didn't have the ride quality and noise isolation. It was thousands more and even though gas was more than it was 5 years earlier, it still wasn't yet cost effective compared to a roomier, better car.

    A smaller battery pack would do nothing for me but raise costs of operation. The only advantage a Cmax Energi and PIP over the Volt is better off electric mileage. With off peak electric rates a PIP or Energi cost better than 3 times as much to drive on gas than the Volt on electric and the Volt can clearly use less gas overall, a point you have stated over and over again before the Volt trumped your Prius.

    My electric rates have gone up around 40% in the last 12 years, while gas has doubled and then some. Which do you think is going to rise faster in the next 5 years? The more that gas rises compared to electric, the better the Volt looks. You are completely out of touch if you don't see that.

    If consumption is important to you, than the Volt is important to you. It's looking like being a paid shill is all that's important to you.

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