Rumormill: Suburban, Escalade ESV moving to Lambda

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Z28x

Don't blame CAFE, GM wouldn't give up popular and profitable trucks just for few CAFE mpg.

GM got the peak oil spook when gas hit $4+ this past summer. Despite the current price drop as investors deleverage and economies slow once we find the bottom oil prices are going to explode again. Add to that the dollar is f**ked once the deleveraging and deflation stops, gas will be $6+ by Summer 2010

Please take a class in Economics.

Gas will not be over $4.00 in quite a long time, the bubble that just burst proved that and the world economy will be lucky to be pulling itself off of a bottom by mid 2010. Oil prices could go as low as $28.75 a barrel then bounce back to a range of $35-$50 a barrel, any higher and there are dozens of alternatives with current "profitable prices" at $40-60 a barrel range that will flood the market.

[drew630]

Originally Posted by tamatt27

When you put a loaded trailer onto the hitch on the rear of the vehicle, what do the front wheels have the tendency of doing?

Right, but my point was a Uni-body structure will not last under heavy towing. You need a frame that is strong enough to handle the twists and bending the vehicle will endure when pulling 8,000+ pounds. Making a vehicle RWD doesn't automatically make it a better tow vehicle, it's whats you put underneath that matters.

[C/K Man]

The 1/2 ton Suburban will soon be obsolete. Even if there were buyers for it, the new CAFE standards will be very hard to meet with vehicles like the 1/2 ton Suburban in the product mix. The 3/4 ton Suburban may be heavy enough to get past CAFE, but that vehicle is a slow seller and it doesn't make any sense to continue producting it on a unique platform. The real replacement is the Savanna/Express. BOF construction, much more room, and diesel availablility. Full size pickups will still be around too.

[1G6]

Originally Posted by Skank Boy

A FWD Suburban and Escalade?....LOL...GM of the 80's is back and worse than ever.

Truth.







A unibody Suburban would carry on a grand tradition of ruining great products.

[bcjohnso99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

SUBURBAN TOOO!!!!!!!!!

Traverse, Acadia, Enclave, Enclave, Suburban, Escalade, Yukon too?

ANyone else really irritated?

Sure. They could just scrap Suburban, Yukon and Traverse.

[TJ95GAGT]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just leave the current models go on indefinitely? I don't see the competition offering much more than they are now and the 900's are class leading and still sold a good amount YTD. Upwards of 200k?

I mean GM announced they are moving a car unveiling to Detroit to save costs! What are they doing thinking about changing the one thing they dominate?!

[texassierradude]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

Suburban, Escalade ESV set to move to Lambda
GMI source says move to come by 2014
Caravan to move to Lambda if GM acquires Chrysler

GMI has just learned this evening from a reputable source that the GM Global Product Board greenlighted the next Suburban and Cadillac Escalade ESV to move to the Lambda platform.

There were no votes against the move by board members.

The vote also would call for a contingency move if GM should acquire or merge with Chrysler, LLC. If that were to happen, GM's board has also stated that the next Dodge Caravan will also move to Lambda, while a Chevrolet version of the Minivan would also debut.

By these estimations, the GMT-900 Suburban will last until the 2014 model year.

The reasons behind the move are thought to be aimed squarely at CAFE standards, reducing the number of existing platforms utilized within the corporation, and a shift in general consumer tastes toward lighter unibody vehicles.

GMI presumes that this shift also means that GM has either overcome any limitation in allowing for the FWD-based Lambda architecture to tow higher weight or that the corporation will look solely to their pickup truck lineup (which is slated to remain on a traditional body-on-frame architecture) for customers who need to tow higher-weighted trailers.

GMI will bring you more information as it becomes available.

"from a reputable source"...hmmm...has Rupert Murdoch taken over GMI? Good God people, this isn't happening for 6 years, "if" the reputable source is correct.

I would imagine the vast majority of customers don't give a rats ass if their tow vehicle is Lambda, GMT-900 or whatever. Only the full time whiners here at GMI could get worked into a froth over product plans 6 years down the road. This decision is being driven by the new CAFE standards. Has occured to any of you folks that the $10B "bailout" won't be given with no strings attached?

[MCGARRETT]

Before we completley freak out, lets wait until we get all the information.

But a couple of things come to mind..

First if anyone can build something robust and FWD it would be the company that made 10,000 FWD motorhomes, 95% of which are still around I believe.(not that I am pro-FWD Suburban, but I am just making a point)

2nd...

Has anyone ever seen the video of the diesel V10 Touareg towing a 747 on TopGear?
Touaregs are not BOF by the way...
and they are no slouches off road either (again, I dont like the Touareg, just using it as an example)


A quick comparison gave me a couple of thoughts ...

Chevrolet Trailblazer
Length 191.8
width 74.7
Interior Volume 80.1
MPG 14/20
Max Trailer Weight 5200lbs
Weight 4523lbs


GMC Acadia
Length 200.7in
Width 78.2in
Interior Volume 116.9 cu ft
MPG 16/24
Max Trailer Weight 4500lbs
Weight 4722lbs


VW Touareg FSI V8
Length 187.2in
Width 75.9 in
Interior Volume 71.1cu ft
MPG 12/17
Max Trailer Weight 7,716lbs
Weight 5300lbs



Chevrolet Suburban 1500
Length 222.4in
Width 79.1in
Interior Volume 137.4 cu ft
MPG 14/20
Max Trailer Weight 7100lbs
Weight 5607lbs


Cadillac Escalade(reg length)
Length 204.5in
Width 79.1in
Interior Volume 108.9 cu ft
MPG 12/19
Max Trailer Weight 8000lbs
Weight 5459lbs



GMC Yukon XL 2500
Length 222.4in
Width 79.1in
Interior Volume 137.4 cu ft
MPG na/na
Max Trailer Weight 9600lbs
Weight 6160lbs



The current Lambda based vehicles seems to be a great replacement for 95% of most GMT360 users, they tow within 700lbs of each other, the Lambdas can seat up to 8 without requiring an EXT/XL version like the GMT360's did the Lambdas get better MPG and have much more interior room.

The Touareg is a good comparison although it is smaller than all the other trucks in the comparison it still can tow a hefty loads and it is unibody, though again to point out it is more expensive and gets worse MPG than a BOF Escalade or Suburban, but imagine the efficiency that GM could get out of lets say a RWD Unibody vehicle based on Lamda or Lambda II, lets call it GMX1000.


GMX 1000-
Length - Bigger than a current Lambda I, perhaps even a little longer than even a Tahoe,
say about 206.5 in

Width Again a little wider that a Lambda I-79.0in

Interior Volume- Here is where a unitzed vehicle like the current Lambda I does really well, a Lambda currently has more interior volume that any SWB GM BOF SUV
125 cu/ft

MPG 18/25mpg

Max Trailer Weight 7800lbs

Weight 5000lbs

I could be powered by anything from a HD 4.0 litre V6, diesels, smaller displacement LS-X DI V8's.(Such an a vehicle could spur interest in GM re-visiting the sidelined Northstar replacement), of course with a full compliment of 6,7 & 8 speed automatics.


Such a vehicle would be an good replacement for some vehicles like the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade, they still are very capable, good for most off road situations when properly set up and a they would provide a more refined driving experience than the BOF counterparts.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by goblue

So....how much you want to bet Lambda II will be capable of transverse and longitudinal engine layouts. I'd put money on that.

How much do you want to bet that Lambda II will be inexplicably "delayed."

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by likearock00

I'll wait until final word comes from GM.....in 2014.

+1...

Reputable source or not...this just doesn't make sense. Escalade going on Lambda, maybe, but not Suburban. I'll wait for GM to come out and say it themselves.

[westtxsky]

Hi ho, off to Ford or Toyota my family goes....... We need something that can tow 8000 lb and carry 7 people.

What do you tow that is 8000lbs? I'd say less that 5% of tahoe, suburban, yukon, escalade drivers have every towed over 2000lbs. I do think they should keep one BOF suv because everybody else will probably ditch that market in the coming years.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by texassierradude

"from a reputable source"...hmmm...has Rupert Murdoch taken over GMI?

No. It says' "reputable".

[neqqy]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Please take a class in Economics.

Gas will not be over $4.00 in quite a long time, ...

The economy does not follow a textbook supply versus demand model because the financial markets are manipulated. Regular gas prices will go back up into the three to four dollar range sooner than you think. In part due to OPEC but also because of increased taxation that will raise the price floor. Platform plans have to be made five to seven years out. In six years, gas will not be two dollars per gallon, I assure you. I am in touch with people in environmental groups and they are feeling highly empowered about change. Take that as a warning. Joe the plumber will just have to pack his smaller vehicle more efficiently before he drives to the job site.

I agree that the economy will probably continue to sputter for the next several years intermixed with brief uptrends. In the short term, oil prices will of course bottom out then normalize but even at $100 a barrel, our bi-partisan Congress was doing laughably little to encourage alternative fuel development. No petroleum alternatives are anywhere near developed enough to sustain global fuel demand anytime soon. It would take tremendous funding and research to find that solution, but money is instead being diverted to widen the income gap. With current prices, it is true that people are buying full-sized vehicles again but consumer spending/saving habits prove that the average American does not think about tomorrow. These same people will be crying big baby tears to the media when they again have to drop a Benjamin every time they top off their BOFV.

[tkrelston]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

SUBURBAN TOOO!!!!!!!!!

Traverse, Acadia, Enclave, Enclave, Suburban, Escalade, Yukon too?

ANyone else really irritated?

Yes, I am irritated, as I think you missed the big picture, there was no mention of the Yukon in the “report”. I am guessing GM has decided to pull the plug on Pontiac and GMC (and quite possibly Saturn). Why won’t they just keep the new light weight platform for trucks and SUVs, Kill Saturn, Globally lump Holden, Opel, and Vauxhall as one Product Development brand, and then rebadged the best Holden versions as Pontiacs. Thus, they would have ALL global brands except GMC (which is diverse enough on its own, especially since it is all rebadged). GM’s product planners really need to get off their butts and go to the major market locations and see how their products are actually used, and why people buy them. On top of that, all of the Lambdas have the weird pinheaded look the Envoy XL had, and if that trait carries over, there goes the nameplates along with the credibility. If they kill GMC and or Pontiac, I am not sure what they would have that would keep my immediate family or me with the company. Cadillac’s best product is as prestigious as a Malibu...look at the price tags, so whoop tee doo. I will never drive a Chrysler product even if GM makes it. As far back as my great grandfather, my family has never had good luck with them, up to the 2007 Rams that have had three engines put in each of the three my uncle owns( work vehicles/ were cheaper than the normal Chevys), and further more they are typically tacky looking. So again, it is nice to know they are working so diligently on fixing their traditional products, as opposed to getting distracted with a money pit.

Yukon XL-(2) Grandfather & stepsister
Yukon XL Denali-(3)- Uncle
Sierra and Silverado’s- (50+)- Uncle, stepbrother, and cousins-most are company work trucks after Uncle drives the new off
Escalades- (1) - uncle
Escalades EXT- (1) - cousin
Escalade ESV – (2) - uncle and Cousin
Sierra Denali-(2)- Uncle and Cousins
Sierra C3-(4) - Uncle and Cousins
Tahoe – (2) - Cousins
Suburban- (1) - cousin


Sixty-Eight and likely more, and those just the SUV/Trucks from GM CURRENTLY owned. Only one of them to my knowledge could “live without” the rest have other vehicles if needed.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

+1...

Reputable source or not...this just doesn't make sense. Escalade going on Lambda, maybe, but not Suburban. I'll wait for GM to come out and say it themselves.

I agree. I can't imagine GM killing all BOF truck-based SUV's, especially a Cadillac that can bring in a hefty profit-per-unit. I think Escalade will be a Gen II Lamda vehicle, but the ESV (or whatever they end up calling it) will be very much like it is today. GM can keep the current GMT-900 vehicles going for a long time with mechanical and cosmetic updates.