OFFICIAL 2010 CAMARO STATS & SPECS released! 300hp / 422hp!

[syr74]

[quote=E. Haskell;1462141]

Why does it matter as long as I'm comparing Ford factory numbers to GM factory numbers?

Because it gives the impression that you know your car cannot compete with what is coming down the pipe. But please, do carry on.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Are you high? GM rates the G8 GT at 3995lbs. 3946lbs could very well be true depending on the options, the scale, and added fluids.

I was off by 50lb Factory numbers are still conservative and the weight difference between the Camaro and Mustang is still more like the 400lb I cited than the 280lb difference you inferred.

Originally Posted by E. haskell

What real world number am I using for the Mustang? Ford list the base model Mustang GT at something like 3495lbs. Do you think that isn't the base model? Get a clue.

Funny, I was certain I already pointed out that a base Mustang coupe weighs in at ~3500lb. Reading comprehension issues here Beav? The problem is your fascination with comparing any curb weight number you find to the GM released number you d*** well know no Camaro will ever weigh in at. Your motives are obvious.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Well what the hell is your point? Using factory numbers or your supposed "real world" numbers, the difference in weight is still about the same.

Yes, it is. But your insistence on mingling the two was an obvious attempt at making the SS look like less of a whale than it actually is.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Whoa, hold your horses. Where did I say 280lbs? Maybe you didn't take the time to read what I wrote. I used the curb weight of the Mustang Bullitt. Go read it again.

I saw it the first time and, as I stated above, your motives are plainly obvious to all but the Kool Aid faithful.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Obviously the high points of buying a performance car.

Of course. Because designing a performance car to be needlessly large and heavy is really the only way to go.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Talk is cheap. Let me know when it gets here. We all know how these 2 years before the fact estimates can be way off

It's not a two year estimate, and it is right on the money.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

I still don't understand the continuing fascination with comparing the curb weight of new GM vehicles to vehicles that are 4 years old and based on platforms that date back to '00.

You do understand that you are the one who initially wanted to play that game?

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Well then, stop trying to say the Camaro is heavy. Wait until Ford releases the specs for the 2010MY car and then we'll talk about weight.

So yet again, this is fine when you think it can be worked to your benefit, but not under any other circumstances.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Don't give me any of this guesstimate sh**. It's pointless.

No guesstimates here. Just admittedly conservative pre-production numbers from people within Ford for an engine/car we know is coming. If official specs are released in the same fashion as Camaro numbers have been we should have them by this time next year if not a little earlier. We know it makes at least 400hp and we know it wont gain more than 50lb. You decide where that leaves the Camaro.

[Chaz_23]

Now, why can't they put that V6 into the G8, instead of that anemic 248hp one.

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by syr74

Because it gives the impression that you know your car cannot compete with what is coming down the pipe. But please, do carry on.

I don't know what is coming down the pipe and neither do you. Internet rumors do not = knowlege

I was off by 50lb Factory numbers are still conservative and the weight difference between the Camaro and Mustang is still more like the 400lb I cited than the 280lb difference you inferred.

I never inferred a 280lb difference between the GT and SS. I used the curb weight of the Bullitt. Get a clue.

Funny, I was certain I already pointed out that a base Mustang coupe weighs in at ~3500lb. Reading comprehension issues here Beav? The problem is your fascination with comparing any curb weight number you find to the GM released number you d*** well know no Camaro will ever weigh in at. Your motives are obvious.

So abviously you wouldn't be trying to say that I'm saying the weight difference is 280lbs....right? Opps, no, you forgot to read that I was using the Bullitt's curb weight. Please never mention reading comprehension again. You obviously have no grasp on it.

Yes, it is. But your insistence on mingling the two was an obvious attempt at making the SS look like less of a whale than it actually is.

See kids, this is why you should NOT mix weed with breakfast. I never used these supposed "real world" weights for the Mustang in any comparison I've made. You are making stuff up...possibly hallucinating.

I saw it the first time and, as I stated above, your motives are plainly obvious to all but the Kool Aid faithful.

What motive and where is you evidence? You've totally goofed up and now you're trying to blame it on some mysterious motives.

Of course. Because designing a performance car to be needlessly large and heavy is really the only way to go.

You still haven't proven that the Camaro is large and heavy. What are you comparing it to. Please let us know. Please tell me you aren't comparing it to the weak sauce 300hp Mustang or some future Mustang that you know nothing about....

It's not a two year estimate, and it is right on the money.

Show me the spec sheet.

You do understand that you are the one who initially wanted to play that game?

What game? The game that shows how painfully flawed your "Camaro is heavy" argument is? Yeah, I'm good at that game!

So yet again, this is fine when you think it can be worked to your benefit, but not under any other circumstances.

2010 Camaro specs are released. Fact. You can't defend your point unless you give rough estimates based on internet rumors. Sad.

No guesstimates here. Just admittedly conservative pre-production numbers from people within Ford for an engine/car we know is coming.

Yeah, we heard all kinds numbers for the Camaro based on the same crappy evidence. Some were true. Some were not. Let me know when the spec sheet arrives.

If official specs are released in the same fashion as Camaro numbers have been we should have them by this time next year if not a little earlier. We know it makes at least 400hp and we know it wont gain more than 50lb. You decide where that leaves the Camaro.

You know nothing.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by SigEpCutlass

I noticed that the manual trans EPA #'s aren't on the spec sheet. My guess is that GM is still messing with the FDR to increase the HWY MPG's! Come on GM, if the LS3 in a Vette gets 27mpg on the highway with the tougher standards, the Camaro should be able to get about 25!!! Please GM get this right!!!

Enough with Fuel Economy numbers already! It's a 422hp sports car that'll cost $20k less than Corvette! If you're so concerned about FE, buy the vette. Though you probably ought to buy a hybrid if 2 mpg matters to you. Stop whining!

[BigAls87Z28]

Ahhhh, the official start of bench racing has begun!!

Let me tell you this. For the Mustang to get another 100hp, its going to need a lot more chassis structure, as well as bigger brakes, stiffer frame, and a more robust rear end and transmissions.
If all that is gunna just come in at 50lbs more then current...I think some of you are dreaming

This is the Law of Cars. And Law of Life
1: Performance
2: Quality
3: Cost
You can only have 2, you must sacrafice one.
If the car is gunna have Camaro SS's performance with the same cost, its gunna be a tin can with rubbermaid interior...aka, what it is now. Chassis flex, poor weight transfer, poor suspension.

Camaro has raised the bar, and now its up to everyone to match it. Camaro has been setting the bar since 1967.

If this 400hp V8 exists, and shows up in Mustang, Ford must sacrafice something.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

I don't know what is coming down the pipe and neither do you. Internet rumors do not = knowlege

Further proof that denial really ins't just a river in Egypt.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

I never inferred a 280lb difference between the GT and SS. I used the curb weight of the Bullitt. Get a clue. So abviously you wouldn't be trying to say that I'm saying the weight difference is 280lbs....right? Opps, no, you forgot to read that I was using the Bullitt's curb weight. Please never mention reading comprehension again. You obviously have no grasp on it.

You bring the heaviest Mustang coupe curb weight into a comparison with a low-ball base model estimate of the Camaro coupe, but you want everybody to believe there was no agenda in doing so? Right. Your motives are pure as the driven snow.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

See kids, this is why you should NOT mix weed with breakfast. I never used these supposed "real world" weights for the Mustang in any comparison I've made. You are making stuff up...possibly hallucinating.

I'm sorry. Did I hurt your feelings when I called you out?

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

What motive and where is you evidence? You've totally goofed up and now you're trying to blame it on some mysterious motives.

Did you go to the Clinton School of Shuck and Jive? Sadly, much as it did in the seriously deteriorating court of public opinion, your 'what did I do' approach will likely work on this forum for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

You still haven't proven that the Camaro is large and heavy. What are you comparing it to. Please let us know. Please tell me you aren't comparing it to the weak sauce 300hp Mustang or some future Mustang that you know nothing about.

Wow, your argument gets weaker by the second. The Camaro was proven large and heavy by GM's own spec sheet. Put more succinctly, a base Camaro coupe weighs as much as a base Dodge Charger four door which has a 120 inch wheelbase and is over 200 inches long. Pardon those of us not chugging Jim Jones juice if we don't buy into the dogma.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Show me the spec sheet.

Sad. Even worse your reaction to anything outside of your little box of reality is completely predictable. When the Spec sheet does get released and the cars are pitted head to head with the Camaro spending it's days getting very familiar with what a pony's a** looks like you'll revert to extolling the virtues of the Camaros IRS and newer chassis.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

What game? The game that shows how painfully flawed your "Camaro is heavy" argument is? Yeah, I'm good at that game!

Of course. Don't let the reality that the Camaro is large and heavy influence your posts on the same. According to your argument we would have to move to a Bentley Brooklands to find a coupe which qualifies as being large and heavy. Ridiculous.

Originally Posted by E.Haskell

2010 Camaro specs are released. Fact. You can't defend your point unless you give rough estimates based on internet rumors. Sad.

Actually, sad would be constantly moaning and crying that the Camaro somehow has to be this large and heavy because it is newer than the four year old Mustang platform, an argument which makes absolutely no sense on its face. Using numbers verified by folks who work for Ford is more like basic common sense. In fact, using those numbers is akin to how we knew the base V8 Camaro coupe was going to be a roughly 4000lb/400hp car.....and it is.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Yeah, we heard all kinds numbers for the Camaro based on the same crappy evidence. Some were true. Some were not. Let me know when the spec sheet arrives.

As mentioned above, those of us who didn't insist on living in a dream world within which the Camaro was magically going to weigh in at 3500lb despite what reality and leaked info told us knew within a very small margin what the Camaro would come in at, both in terms of power and performance.

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

You know nothing.

All you are doing is setting yourself up to look even more ridiculous when the 5.0L shows up in a year or less. Chevy screwed up by delivering us a Camaro intended for a world which doesn't care about fuel economy, within which stuffing ever larger V8's under the hood would be an acceptable solution to any acceleration issues. Unfortunately for GM that isn't the world we live in anymore, and after the new wears off the Camaro is going to suffer for it.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Let me tell you this. For the Mustang to get another 100hp, its going to need a lot more chassis structure, as well as bigger brakes, stiffer frame, and a more robust rear end and transmissions.
If all that is gunna just come in at 50lbs more then current...I think some of you are dreaming

The chassis structure itself will get stiffer, although it doesn't have to. All Mustangs received the chassis strengthening necessary to handle the GT00's 500hp and robust torque. The rear axle and tranny will be new, and heavier, but the changes made to the chassis intended to both strengthen and lighten it will largely offset these. A 50lb increase in curb weight is easy to believe here given the changes coming.

Originally Posted by BigAl'sZ28

This is the Law of Cars. And Law of Life
1: Performance
2: Quality
3: Cost
You can only have 2, you must sacrifice one.

You are largely correct. But the difference here is that the Mustang has easily paid for it's initial costs and therefore doesn't necessarily have to go up in price to remain profitable. although I expect that it will. Still, it wont cost Camaro money.

[charts.1]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

Enough with Fuel Economy numbers already! It's a 422hp sports car that'll cost $20k less than Corvette! If you're so concerned about FE, buy the vette. Though you probably ought to buy a hybrid if 2 mpg matters to you. Stop whining!

Will you be putting in an order for a 2010 Camaro SS?

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by charts.1

Will you be putting in an order for a 2010 Camaro SS?

Probably not, considering my wife is expecting twins in the Fall. I'm looking at a new Suburban to replace my Yukon.

My point is that if 2 mpg makes that big of a difference to you, you shouldn't be looking at a 422hp V8 sports coupe that costs $35k+. You should be looking at the V6 version, or a more fuel efficient & cheaper car. That's why they offer the V6! Some people just want everything!

[charts.1]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Ahhhh, the official start of bench racing has begun!!

Let me tell you this. For the Mustang to get another 100hp, its going to need a lot more chassis structure, as well as bigger brakes, stiffer frame, and a more robust rear end and transmissions.
If all that is gunna just come in at 50lbs more then current...I think some of you are dreaming

This is the Law of Cars. And Law of Life
1: Performance
2: Quality
3: Cost
You can only have 2, you must sacrafice one.
If the car is gunna have Camaro SS's performance with the same cost, its gunna be a tin can with rubbermaid interior...aka, what it is now. Chassis flex, poor weight transfer, poor suspension.

Camaro has raised the bar, and now its up to everyone to match it. Camaro has been setting the bar since 1967.

If this 400hp V8 exists, and shows up in Mustang, Ford must sacrafice something.

Big Als you are living in the old world. Who has the most power won't matter in a year or two. Automakers are putting all their focus NOW on green cars. Once the purists gobble up their allotment of Camaros it will probably flop like the Chevy SSR, Mercury Marauder, and Ford T. Bird. Everyone wanted one of those cars when they came out but reality soon set in and practicality ruled the day. Chevy spends 10s of millions promoting the Corvette yet sales are down over 12% this year. I have been driving only chevys for over 40 years but the writing for performance cars is on the wall.

Chevrolet just announced last week that they are scaling back on their factory support/advertising for most, or all forms of racing starting in 2009. This new Camaro and the soon to be ZL1 Corvette will be at the tail end of Chevys long history of performance. If anyone seriously wants a new 2010 Camaro SS better get your order in when they come out because GM is NOW going in a completely different direction. Green is the new performance and future whether we like it or not.

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by syr74

Further proof that denial really ins't just a river in Egypt.

Show me the spec sheet.

You bring the heaviest Mustang coupe curb weight into a comparison with a low-ball base model estimate of the Camaro coupe, but you want everybody to believe there was no agenda in doing so? Right. Your motives are pure as the driven snow.

Where have been little one? In the same post that I mentioned the Bullitt's curb weight, I said: "Does anyone honestly expect a BRAND NEW car with 422hp/408lb-ft and a price tag near $30k to weigh much less than 3860lbs?!?!?" I did NOT compare it to base model Camaro - 3860lbs is the weight of the SS. Get your facts straight.

The only reason I brought up the Bullitt is because it's the Mustang closest in performance to the SS. Granted, it's still nowhere close.

I'm sorry. Did I hurt your feelings when I called you out?

No, but my IQ drops 5 points every time I read your weak rebuttals.

Did you go to the Clinton School of Shuck and Jive? Sadly, much as it did in the seriously deteriorating court of public opinion, your 'what did I do' approach will likely work on this forum for obvious reasons.

More talk with little to support it. If you make claims, back them up.

Wow, your argument gets weaker by the second. The Camaro was proven large and heavy by GM's own spec sheet. Put more succinctly, a base Camaro coupe weighs as much as a base Dodge Charger four door which has a 120 inch wheelbase and is over 200 inches long. Pardon those of us not chugging Jim Jones juice if we don't buy into the dogma.

Ahh, the base Dodge Charger - the epitome of sports coupes.

BTW - I think you're getting the words heavy and dense confused.

Sad. Even worse your reaction to anything outside of your little box of reality is completely predictable. When the Spec sheet does get released and the cars are pitted head to head with the Camaro spending it's days getting very familiar with what a pony's a** looks like you'll revert to extolling the virtues of the Camaros IRS and newer chassis.

Your "argument" is heavy on fanboyism and weak on facts. Typical.

Of course. Don't let the reality that the Camaro is large and heavy influence your posts on the same. According to your argument we would have to move to a Bentley Brooklands to find a coupe which qualifies as being large and heavy. Ridiculous.

Like I said, compared to what? What RWD coupe are you comparing it to? So far, you've brought up the base Charger and decided that scratching your butt and using rumored internet "specs" qualifies as a quality rubuttal. Sad.

Actually, sad would be constantly moaning and crying that the Camaro somehow has to be this large and heavy because it is newer than the four year old Mustang platform, and argument which makes absolutely no sense on its face.

Where did I say just a newer chassis? Reading comprehension is your friend.

Lets see...

The Camaro has: bigger rotors, 4 piston calipers, bigger wheels, bigger tires, independent rear suspension, bigger fuel tank, 122 more HP, newer chassis, 6 speed transmission, etc.

But yeah, I guess I'm be illogical for bringing those things up.

Using numbers verified by folks who work for Ford is more like basic common sense. In fact, using those numbers is aking to how we knew the base V8 Camaro coupe was going to be a roughly 4000lb/400hp car.....and it is.

Can you please stop acting like you're in "the know" and show me a spec sheet? You're trolling is becoming silly.

As mentioned above, those of us who didn't insist on living in a dream world within which the Camaro was magically going to weigh in at 3500lb despite what reality and leaked info told us knew within a very small margin what the Camaro would come in at, both in terms of power and performance.

That's easy to say after the fact.

All you are doing is setting yourself up to look even more ridiculous when the 5.0L shows up in a year or less.

We'll cover that topic when Ford releases the specs. It's pointless to sit around and bench race future products.

Chevy screwed up by delivering us a Camaro intended for a world which doesn't care about fuel economy, within which stuffing ever larger V8's under the hood would be an acceptable solution to any acceleration issues. Unfortunately for GM that isn't the world we live in anymore, and after the new wears off the Camaro is going to suffer for it.

So now you saying you know what kind of gas mileage the 5.0 will get?!?

Dude, pass me that dube.

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by charts.1

Chevy spends 10s of millions promoting the Corvette yet sales are down over 12% this year.

Of course that couldn't possibly have anything to do with the C6 Corvette being nearly 5 years old.

[BigAls87Z28]

Oh please...stop with the "end of performance" bs.
They said the same in the early 70's, then said it again in the late 70's early 80's, and they are saying it again.
Price of oil has dropped 25 bucks a barrel in 2 weeks.
Enough of the "green friendly" bs. Camaro sold its best when ther was a gas crisis as well as the economy in a tail spin.
Camaro is a very attractive coupe, and people still want attractive cars. And with 300hp, its a great buy, and no longer do you have to feel as if you had to settle for the V8. V6 will be for the guy or gal who wants a hot ride with good performance, the V8 will sell to enthuisasts.

GM has made it customizable and beautiful coupe. Everyone rappin about its gas milage, even though it gets the same as everyone else's V6's but with more power.
People said that GM couldnt make the production car look like the concept...they did
People said that GM cant make a 300hp V6 engine standard, while getting great gas milage, GM did it.

Get back to the bench racing.

Mustang will not:
1- Make 400hp and stay light
2- Keep it within 2k of current prices
3- Outdo the Camaro

[mucker15]

Originally Posted by SHOWMAN

My Trailblazer SS 2wd gets better MPG than was on the window sticker gets around 19 on the hwy, not that thats great but its a 400 hp heavy truck.

...............................yeh u know ur just helping my idea and case for that LT model rights lol[/quote]

I hear ya, its a pretty awesome car Even with a 6, there wont be a bad choice with any of the models

[blkwrxsti]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

...GM has made it customizable and beautiful coupe. Everyone rappin about its gas milage, even though it gets the same as everyone else's V6's but with more power.
People said that GM couldnt make the production car look like the concept...they did
People said that GM cant make a 300hp V6 engine standard, while getting great gas milage, GM did it.

Get back to the bench racing.

Mustang will not:
1- Make 400hp and stay light
2- Keep it within 2k of current prices
3- Outdo the Camaro

Well put BigAls - no wonder you're the mod. Since we're bench racing,

1) anyone know if this platform will do AWD?
2) how long before one of these gets a supercharger?