New Cruze Diesel MPG "Comparable To Cruze ECO"; In Showrooms In May

[bballr4567]

Bad news IMHO.

I had hoped GM was appealing to potentially new buyers who would be willing to try something new like diesel in exchange for increase fuel economy.

You can forget the resale argument because it is not proven a US made diesel will hold its value comparable to proven foreign makers.

Plus in a shaky economy people are looking for ways to save either one to weather any future economic storm or two get over the one they have just been through.

GM didn't hear alarms going off when the Malibu ECO was trashed widely by the media and somewhat by buyers too for under delivery in the MPG department?

Does GM want to risk another car magazine adding the Cruise Diesel to Malibu ECO as one of the 10 worst cars label?

So, let me ask you this. Does the Jetta TDI get a pass for getting 30/42 EPA rating? If GM matches that with a more powerful motor then what is the issue?

[Ed753]

There are no savings in buying any car. That is proven. An $800 car that you put $500 a year into making run is cheaper than any new car yet the market manages to buy over 14 million last year. How does that work?

So then GM's going to tell people that they should buy $800 cars instead of new ones!?

GM's got to SELL this car, since they've decided to bring it here, higher sticker price, fuel +/- 30% more expensive, a more expensive (short-term) maintenance cycle............... For marginally better FE, and higher end-of-use resale?

Its going to take YEARS for the Cruze to reach $1k. Hell, I had a hard time finding a Cavalier for $1k last year.

That was just an example, I said 10 years............. Who pays more for the same/similar car, based on the fact it might be worth more when its time to sell it? And if it cost more from the get-go because its suppose to save you significant amounts of cash and doesn't now, why will that matter near the end of its life?

Just like any vehicle that is available with a different engine. You buy a Malibu Turbo itll always be worth a little more than the N/A I4.

You'd pay more for a 10 year old Malibu Turbo with a 150K than a N.A. one of the same year, mileage and condition?

Just looked up a 2006 Jetta. TDI with 96k miles is being sold for right at $16k. The 2.5 NA model that has 93k miles is going for $10.5k. The MSRP difference was right at $2k IIRC.

One example, means nothing, I can find an example where a 1/2 Ton Gas truck has a higher price than a 3/4 Ton Diesel.

Your example also assumes that this car will have the same resale/depreciation trend-line as a VW, IMHO that is probably best-case, scenario.

[cdp326]

It's kind of been said but again, if it gets the same as an Eco manual, that's a small start since it's expected the diesel Cruze will be auto-only, so it would have an advantage over an auto Eco at 39 mpg.

Even the same 42 mpg and a ~15 gallon tank would give it a slight range advantage over the Jetta TDI (14.5 gallon tank I believe). A key to its success will be selling that this is a diesel in a car that isn't a VW. Though at the same time, while diesel buyers aren't regular customers they eventually they need the regular customers too to buy it, or for regular customers to become diesel buyers. Resale won't be an advantage, yet. It still has to prove itself in the real-world and create the demand.

Another thing to consider: Most VW TDI commercials appear to sell the range of the car, not necessarily the mileage itself. Which is smart because you could get 50 mpg from a hybrid too, but those tend to be better in the city and a diesel can stretch out on the highway.

[bballr4567]

So then GM's going to tell people that they should buy $800 cars instead of new ones!?

GM's got to SELL this car, since they've decided to bring it here, higher sticker price, fuel +/- 30% more expensive, a more expensive (short-term) maintenance cycle............... For marginally better FE, and higher end-of-use resale?




That was just an example, I said 10 years............. Who pays more for the same/similar car, based on the fact it might be worth more when its time to sell it? And if it cost more from the get-go because its suppose to save you significant amounts of cash and doesn't now, why will that matter near the end of its life?

One example, means nothing, I can find an example where a 1/2 Ton Gas truck has a higher price than a 3/4 Ton Diesel.

Your example also assumes that this car will have the same resale/depreciation trend-line as a VW, IMHO that is probably best-case, scenario.

So, how do luxury cars get sold if it does the same thing as the cheaper models?

Ed, you are looking way too deep into this. GM is doing the exact same thing as VW and offering a model that is different. Is that really a bad thing?


As far as the market price, sure, its one example but its also throughout the whole nation. Same year, samish miles and a TDI will garner a higher price. You know how I know? I've bought one before. No one has ever said that a diesel will save you money. I dont see it in the press release do you? Nope. It merely will offer better performance (shame on GM for offering that) and better range (again, shame, shame) for a higher price. It happens with the optional engine in a lot of vehicles. Why buy the V6 when the I4 will suffice? Oh yea, it doesnt save you money does it so why must a diesel?

[AMcA]

To my mind, the great virtue of diesels is they've got a fun-to-drive component. Rmm'ing through the gears like a semi-truck driver is great fun. As is the torque grunt off the line.

I don't know if there's a way to promote that to the American motorist, but I hope they're at least thinking about it.

[Mcmflow]

Remember that VW was pretty disappointed with the EPA for their Diesel #'s. In fact for a little while didn't they run an advertisement or something that started higher numbers and said it was from a 3rd party testing or something like that?

In any case, hopefully this one will be like the VW's who seem to get a lot lot better MPG in the 'real world'

[Ed753]

So, how do luxury cars get sold if it does the same thing as the cheaper models?

Ed, you are looking way too deep into this. GM is doing the exact same thing as VW and offering a model that is different. Is that really a bad thing?

We are comparing ONE CRUZE to another, how exactly does a luxury car fit in the conversation!?


I'm not looking at it too deep, IMHO you are (I'm not referencing VW, its market or customers)..............


I'm looking at it as if Suzy Pig-tails walks into a Chevrolet Dealer to buy a pretty red car for her new, weekly across state college commute.



Sure there are GM fans, that have been clamoring for a diesel, but that number is probably about as big as the number of GM fans that were driving Prius and waiting for an alternative.



After talking it over with you, I'm certain that I am 100% wrong, GM will sell hundreds of thousands, buyers will overlook the higher; fuel and sticker price, just for the opportunity to drive a GM diesel, just like the Volt its about the car, and not saving $$$$$$$.

[bone]

Surely the Cruze Diesel will be competitive, mileage wise, with the VW TDI. Where it will not be competitive is in the variety of models. The diesel Cruze needs a station wagon variant to compete with the very popular Golf/Jetta TDI wagon.

[BustemAgain]

There are a lot of people here who need to go drive a modern diesel. The lamentations and gnashing of teeth about mileage in the low to mid 40s are ridiculous and miss the point. This thing is going to pull. When you step on the accelerator, it is going to effortlessly crush your innards against your spine and you will forget all about the eco.

[bballr4567]

Ed, if the Cruze diesel competes within the lineup with the Cruze Eco that gets 26/39, cool, but its going to get better MPG and be faster. Got to remember that the Eco is a very small amount of Cruze's made. Add in a more powerful motor (which suddenly you forget about) and a much larger range how is that a bad thing? Why wont you answer that?


Just great how you feel the need to say, well, GM needs a diesel variant and then when its offered you crap all over it. Funny stuff.

[BlackGTP]

What about the HD diesel trucks? Those suddenly get forgot about when a diesel goes in a car? Diesel buyers arent regular customers. Sure, the autopress will laugh and remind people how crappy the last diesels were but they did suck. Diesels used to ALL be sucky in the 80s.

VW has been putting out good TDI vehicles for about 12 years. Its not like they have been doing it for decades.

Toyota sells midsize cars and have high resale values, so I should infer that because Toyota's midsize resale values are high that Chevy's will be as well? Or BMW's 3 Series has a high resale that the ATS will as well? Plus, to your argument about diesel trucks, I don't think that equates to car sales. Over the past 10+ years huge amounts of people have bought American trucks but that didn't equate into car volume. Plus I doubt Joe Average car buyer doesn't even know or care that GM, Ford and Chrysler have sold diesel trucks for a long time.

Plus most buyers of VW know it's German roots and that diesels are big in Europe, therefore VW has the know how to build a good diesel. And if they didn't know that the car mags, reviewers and Consumer Reports will point that out.

I do hope that GM's diesel efforts can command higher resale, but I don't think we can infer anything from competitor's resale values.

[ogg vorbis]

I don't recall VW Jetta advertising mpg. I DO hear the 1000+ km range.

The Opel Astra 2.0L cidi is rated at 4.7 L/100 km...which works out to 50 mpg with the manual and stop/start. It has 160+ bhp, and 250+ lb-ft. With all that torque, they can gear it lower, and it won't suffer up grades like the gasoline engine. imo, it will be rated higher than the eco, and real world mileage will be better still.

[bballr4567]

Toyota sells midsize cars and have high resale values, so I should infer that because Toyota's midsize resale values are high that Chevy's will be as well? Or BMW's 3 Series has a high resale that the ATS will as well? Plus, to your argument about diesel trucks, I don't think that equates to car sales. Over the past 10+ years huge amounts of people have bought American trucks but that didn't equate into car volume. Plus I doubt Joe Average car buyer doesn't even know or care that GM, Ford and Chrysler have sold diesel trucks for a long time.

Plus most buyers of VW know it's German roots and that diesels are big in Europe, therefore VW has the know how to build a good diesel. And if they didn't know that the car mags, reviewers and Consumer Reports will point that out.

I do hope that GM's diesel efforts can command higher resale, but I don't think we can infer anything from competitor's resale values.

Yet, consumer reports wont remind you of the awful first TDI that came in the Audi 100 will they? Nope. Until the 2000 release of the PD TDI, they werent that good of motors yet they are forgotten about because of newer motors that have improved upon them. GM hasnt gone through that and will offer a motor that is likely equal to the current TDI and will get bashed for it.

Sure, you cant talk about regular gas cars the same because its a LARGE, LARGE market. The diesel market equates to about 3 of the market and is growing. Why is it growing? It certainly isnt availability, its about it being a great alternative to anemic gas engines available in smaller cars these days. This about it, the Cruze 1.4T has 138/148. The diesel is going to put out the same HP but over 100 more lb/ft while offering better MPGs. How is that a bad thing?

Diesels arent for everyone but the ones that understand them know the significance. I just find it funny that for almost 3 years people have balked at GM for not bringing over the diesel and then this forum craps all over it because its going to get almost the same rating as the other diesel in its class.

[BlackGTP]

After talking it over with you, I'm certain that I am 100% wrong, GM will sell hundreds of thousands, buyers will overlook the higher; fuel and sticker price, just for the opportunity to drive a GM diesel, just like the Volt its about the car, and not saving $$$$$$$.

I somewhat disagree abut the Volt comment. While the diesel Cruze is all about the milage and cost quotient, the Volt is different. Because of its unique looks and mission, like the Prius, the Volt is making a statement when you drive one. In other words it evokes emotion and will get people to buy it in spite of its cost/benefit quotient. Same way people buy a 3 Series over a Cruze. Both are similar size and will take you to the same places, yet the BMW costs more than twice the amount. It's the emotion of the BMW that gets people to pay so much over the Cruze, even though it makes no sense.

[cdp326]

So, how do luxury cars get sold if it does the same thing as the cheaper models?

Ed, you are looking way too deep into this. GM is doing the exact same thing as VW and offering a model that is different. Is that really a bad thing?


As far as the market price, sure, its one example but its also throughout the whole nation. Same year, samish miles and a TDI will garner a higher price. You know how I know? I've bought one before. No one has ever said that a diesel will save you money. I dont see it in the press release do you? Nope. It merely will offer better performance (shame on GM for offering that) and better range (again, shame, shame) for a higher price. It happens with the optional engine in a lot of vehicles. Why buy the V6 when the I4 will suffice? Oh yea, it doesnt save you money does it so why must a diesel?

I think you're both right (! ) in a Cruze the diesel should provide all the advantages like resale too, but we can't quite assume it will all be there yet. VW in general has been different, while GM's track record with different is kind of mixed. And do they treat it as different and unique, or as just as useable and thereby normalize it? In the last couple years Cruze along with a couple other small cars have been able to push the barrier of small cars that people will pay more for, how far can they push that?

The cost-benefit should even out but the initial shock of diesel being $.70+ more than gas might be tough for some to get over. And purchase price it might not appear great within the Cruze lineup but priced against a base/entry-level Malibu as well (like Jetta TDI, price starting between S/SE Passat), and with probably a similar/better feeling of "grunt" than even a Malibu it might appear better.

I think what I hope is that it can match or beat a 30 mpg city rating too. We'll see. When do we officially hear about pricing, model, etc? We're not used to GM being this quiet about something a mere 4 months from being on sale.

I don't think people are crapping on it, most want everything to go perfectly so they don't sell just 15 of them and GM says "obviously nobody wants a diesel so no more for you." Especially since in a sea of sedans from GM this is one different thing they are about to do in the near-term.